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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
No mate, hopefully someone has some advice for you. I just accepted it in the end that I was fighting a losing battle. Once I took the power away by not reacting, responding or letting her see it was getting to me I think that annoyed her more.
It was harder when my kids were little as they had to go along with whatever mum said. Ten years later I still haven't seen much of my twin girls, however they are a few months from turning 18 and plan on moving out of mum's house asap now.
I am not suggesting you take the same path as me, it is a lot of lost time with your kids, that you can never get back.
I did fight in family court in early years to see my kids at all and that was a long expensive process. For year I saw my kids fortnightly on weekends but over time mum worked her psychological magic on the kids and kept up her control games with me. I had to walk away two years ago for my kids and I sanity. I am still in contact with the twins now and I am sure once they drive and leave home even more so.
All this control because an adult is bitter but the main motivator was money. Two and a half thousand a month in child support. It has been tough, I carried all the debt from divorce which I haven't been able to pay off due to high child support. I work as a senior manager and still need to drive uber sometimes to get through the month. Have had many months of eating rice, skipping meals over the years.
Such a shame that this major problem affecting our kids is being swept under the carpet, no one ever wants to fix the system. I am sure if it was women that were being taken advantage of it would be out in the open very quickly and would be sorted out.
Over ten years of bullshit for me almost over, quite a significant loss of ability to be a father and hundreds of thousands paid in child support. Child support never an issue, the issue is providing a lifestyle for a fully grown adult mother.
I hope you get some answers mate and go well. Even after all the bullshit and if it appears the ex has the control, if you stand to your values and be a good person, your kids will all gravitate back to you at some point. My three eldest kids did, they all moved in with me at some point and one of the adult kids still lives with me.
Now I am close to slitting my wrist and all my possessions and savings go to her! Ain’t right but I just hope my daughter knows that I was paying quadruple weekly to make sure she was well looked after.
Goodbye and so long CSA - you need to look at your procedures before you do too much more damage to good parents!
For 6 years CS Estimated my income at three and a halt times my taxi Le income.
No reason for the extra income I was supposed to earn.
I appealed this decision and lost assuming I still earned this income of $193000 PA without giving reasons and in the judgement got facts hopelessly untrue.
The problemI believe is the constant lies my ex told to CS including the lies that I my 70s I travelled the World playing polo which is complete BS.
I order to overcome the problems at my age I offered my ex a lump sum to avoid habingto deal with CS in the future.
On Dec 17 I received ca call from Jacky witnessed by my partner that as of Nov 20 I had a zero balance and no more to pay.as the lump sum offer had been accepted.
On Dec 22 I received a call from CS demandingI pay 2500 immediately.
On Dec 24 I received a call from CSto say 1600 had been deducted from my tax refund.L
Last week I received a notice dated Dec 19 2 days after Jackys phone call that I owed $5200.
Was then told in a phone call last week that I had a nil balance whichI do not believe because their word is not their bond.
CS refuses to let me talk to Jacky and Caroline a supervisor had refused to refund the money taken from my tax refund.
Also my income dropped drastically on July 1 yet despite getting my solicitor to lodge a change of assessment I was still forced th pay $2800 per month.
This is a terrible injustice at my age and ruined my Christmas.
How do I get justice?
The state has, through various means(femenism,subliminal programming, social engineering, gender bias etc etc), turned women against men, weather they know it or not. As a resoult long lasting relationships are impossible, especially for the current generation. Searching for relationships is wasted time on this earth at present. The system is clearly against men , we all know that, so strive to improve your health, work,lifestyle, go mgtow . Otherwise whats the option? More of the same madness from another woman and system . As for "Hell" comments, sounds like a bitter woman , lost ,the "independent " type who couldn't survive till next week, without her csa pay check , sitting on the scrap pile of history. (Fight the system not eachother).
You need to go pull a franger down over your head and leave it on for a good 24 hours you disgust me with your comment.
You think us men are really dumb, well your probably right. Now because if we could see or if we even knew the fukn stupid ridiculous human beings you would turn out to being whilst raising our children & the mental torment you put the fathers children through every day 2 day so called normal routine. We wouldn't think twice giving you the special gift of becoming a mother.
Us fathers that couldnt see through your fake disgusting demeanors in which yous would know about yourselves but just hiding it well enough to know that your sneakily going to inflict it on our children during their young years and if yous could feel like that towards a man & future little blessing well...
Us fathers would expect use women to be on the pill at least..!
Except really you women want a free ride in life and everyone to feel sorry for use. Its our responsibilities to stop impreganting yous wow fukn must be a a slut that spreads their legs that wide that they get pregnant hey
Dramatic changes in which the devil will come for his Hell.
Pathetic how a woman would even search this site, thats the immaturity that comes from a mother, us fathers would all hope its only one child you have and will ever have. Coz its a clear bitter Ora you have around you.
Enjoy the attention i gave you for the couple of minutes on here.. well i hope so because even though your a ghost on here, your child is going to grow up and see the true person you are and you will become that ghost in the future to your child.
Thanks for your advise but I gave my son better- go to my accountant and lawyer and set yourself up in a company so your not financially exposed. As parents we can't control who our kids sleep with. Do you have boys????
I know many here will have an opinion, and maybe even examples of case law, surrounding the subject of Winfalls and Change of Assessments, some say nothing, or at best a very limited amount, but she knows, she's know's the upper limits of her financial exposure, and here's the kicker.....she's a Senior Supervisor within the Child Support Agency.
If anyone out there does have some examples of case law involving Windfalls, I sure would appreciate it. I found some, but I need more examples before I take this to the authorities.
Fuck the child support agency you guys are a bunch of fucken pigs.
I've been unable to work for the last 3 1/2 years only because of what has happened and the fact that my children are held from me and I've had avo after avo after false allegations by my ex.
fucking disgusting these women with personality disorders plain out narcissistic and this is the real fucking meaning of narcissistic.
I owe my ex $17,000 because I failed to declare $50,000 that the court gave me to get a rental property because I got forced out of my house.
so not only did I get kicked out of my own house that I paid off I'm then persecuted because I received $50,000 as I had no job to actually find a place and rent and my ex the piece of shit says it's income and I get slugged $520 per week out of my pay from work which I've just started working in the last couple of weeks.
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU SCUM PIECES OF SHIT
Think before you have sex- it’s your choice it’s now your consequence
Put your children first, stop feeling sorry for yourselves you pathetic disempowered loosers
The agency has then stated that Special Circumstances are now met under reason 8a that until this formula was applied could not have been applied.
I believe the CSA Should not be able to change my Actual annual salary as this would not be recognised by the Tax department or even a Bank if I were to apply for loan.
This is piece is aimed at those people who are going through the hell that is the Australian Family Court and Australian Child Support Agency, and are considering instigating class actions.
Ok to discard you like trash but put out the hand to take you money. $610 a week child support. I will pay for my kids any day, no problem but no one needs this much weekly for two kids. This is just funding her crossfit, morning coffees, overseas holidays and paying her mortgage. I will never understand someone wanting to "win" over another person, if I was in a position to do that I would make sure the kids saw their mum and everything was amicable and chilled out.
Pretty hard to respect a person that puts themselves before their kids but puts on a fake persona that they are all for their kids. Also hard to respect someone who yearly takes money from The Smith family charity when it is not needed. Also to apply for local government sport assist to pay sport fees for kids and then pretending she paid, she doesn't know I know this one. Charity and assistance are for people in need. Trust me if you visited the ex's house which was my house, the one I worked FIFO for years to build and if you saw the lifestyle it well above the average of the population.
I am in a bedroom in someone's house getting by day to day, lot's of debt and can only count the days until I am free from control and financial drain. Two years left now. I have been counting for so long now.
It astounds me that this story is so common. Can't people just be nice to each other. Have a conversation to end things and work out what is best for the kids, share the assets etc.
Instead it turns into a greedy grab and a game of keepy off with the children. In the case of my ex this was the only way she was going to get ahead in life. She never worked (hence the need to FIFO) was a lazy person, sat on her arse watching TV when I got home from work everyday. They see the financial gain which as a certainty. Winning lotto not likely and the thought of working not appealing. So they cheat on their husband, put on some tears in court to get a vro base don lies, control you completely until the kids are eighteen.
Two years to go. 24 months. 104 weeks. There is light at the end of this crazy tunnel
I'm sorry to read of the horrific situation you now find yourself in.
Parenting Orders aren't really worth the paper they are written on - as you are finding out. There is no punishment when the orders are continually contravened. Many parents are subjected to this contempt of court, usually without recourse. Unless you are willing to spend a small fortune. Also, because you are happily re-married, your ex will continually hold this against you. Alienator's will think nothing of using your shared children to get back at you.
What you are now going through is Parental Alienation (Google it). You need to understand this, you need to nip this in the bud immediately because time is the alienator's best friend. Time is your worst enemy in this case.
Join these groups, they are really very helpful.
Best of luck!
You might find some useful information in my blog.
My heritage is samoan and the ex had my daughters tonsils removed because " samoans have oversize tonsils which causes her to snore therefore must be removed" my daughter has flat feet and yes you guessed it because shes samoan. My daughter is overweight and i have brought it up with the ex and the same thing its because she is yes samoan. I deal with a spiteful person and i need to beg her for permission to let me see my kids I drive an hour and a half to pick my kids up, on many occasions on arrival to the pick up destination ill receive a text saying the kids arent coming with you this weekend. I hold back tears and drive home.
I launched my False Allegations Research Project 4 April 2020. To date I have emailed 12 surveys, of which 2 have been returned to me completed.
Many of us have been the unfortunate recipients of False Allegations in the Family Courts in Australia, so now is your time to have your say. The more respondents who take part in the survey the more accurate will be the data, and consequently, the final report about the crisis us falsely accused find ourselves in. I am hoping to receive a minimum of "300" completed surveys. More would be ideal.
I am undertaking this research project because 10-years ago this month (April Fool's Day to be precise) I was falsely accused of abusing my then 33-month old son in the Family Court of WA. In July of this year I will have been alienated from him for 10-years. No contact at all. Not even a photo or school report. And yet, I have still had to pay child support!
Rather than get angry and bitter and twisted, I am hoping to use the results of my research project to highlight the problem, and to bring about change and accountability.
You can find more details about the project, including the survey document by clicking on the link below.
Please feel free to pass on this link to anyone you feel may want to take part who are not members of this group. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org.
Thank you, Mark Kosmider
3 Chidren, 9,10 and soon to turn 13
13 year old lives with Dad. As she will be turning 13 soon his child support is increasing. (Teenagers cost more, yes ok) BUT get this, the mother who has the younger 2 kids gets the extra money from him, when the child lives with him!
Teenager with Dad going to cost him more, but he has to pay more maintenance?? What
I had the same happen to me: one year the CSA inflated my income by about $30k. Unfortunately the CSA have multiple ways of assessing income. Your ATO assessment is only part of the process. They can assess you on your potential! Such as your potential to earn cash money, which industries like your are notorious for. If not done so already you need to lodge a change of assessment. If this is unsuccessful you need to appeal their decision. If your appeal is unsuccessful you need to lodge an application with the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Give the time that has elapsed, you may need to lodge extension of time applications for you can a lodge your appeals.
Also, and I am not saying you do, but if your income is X and yet your lifestyle suggests an income of Y, then you can find yourself paying inflated child support.
Lastly, join this group if you haven't already - they may be able to offer more comprehensive advice. https://www.facebook.com/groups/178235639470260/
I'm just a mechanic.... never in my wildest dreams have I earnt that type of money
Word cannot describe the pain of losing your beautiful daughter to suicide, let alone as a result of a negligent and faceless system, the CSA. My heart goes out to you mate, I'm crying just thinking of what you're going through, I really feel for you mate. Please ensure you seek help (Mens helpline) to process the grief and don't let the loss of your daughter go unanswered. The CSA needs to know what has transpired as a result of their actions.
Michael's story is horrific to say the least. Just this forum alone there are nearly 2000 recorded incidents of threats, bulling, harassment, manipulation and cohesion by the CSA. This incidents should be shared with a local member of parliament. While I agree with comments the system is designed to ensure non paying fathers support their kids, it's the fathers who pay and care for their kids that get hit the hardest. I have my kids 50/50 pay all their bills and child support, yet I too get the wrong end of the stick from the CSA. The system is poorly governed, staff not trained to deal with men who are at the lowest point in their lives and I daresay staff at CSA are on a monthly collections target. They use a calculation algorithm that does not take into account an individual's financial situation and heavily bias against the 'payer'. The system is broken!
The CSA, in the majority of cases, is the first touch point of acknowledging our failed relationship with our ex and the breakdown of our family unit. At this point we are emotionally venerable, we are process grief and living life one day at a time. This juncture of our lives is very, very dark with extreme emotional pain that simply won't subside. It is at this point CSA grace us with their presence. I know I've been there! While it wouldn't be hard to link it back to the actions of the CSA, I would suggest that the proportion of the 45 men who commit suicide each week some would be attributed to the actions of the CSA. The CSA staff need to be able to deal with men who are suffering from mental health issues due to trauma of having their lives ripped apart. The CSA need to implement a system that empower their cases managers to review each case separately and to offer free counseling along with mental and emotional health support groups. They need to have a system that is non bias to either the payee or payer and take into consideration all aspects of the payer's financial situation... But nothing is done about it!
If each and every one of us who posted on Father 4 Justice wrote a letter to Hon Kevin Andrews MP who's leading the reform of Family Law and Child Support Laws on their experiences with CSA and suggested reforms ,i.e. treat us as individuals not just a number in the system we might be heard. We all need to be heard for sake our children and the sake of all the great Dads out there being abused by the CSA and broken family court system.
Write your letters/emails to:
Hon Kevin Andrews MP
1st Floor 651-653 Doncaster Road
Doncaster, VIC, 3108
PH: 03 98489900
Ref Media Release:
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Now, I’m told the inheritance I was to receive for my deceased mother has now been taken by Child Support (by law) and there’s nothing I can do about it.
So be warned people, CSA don’t believe anything you say, don’t give a shit about what you say, and honestly don’t care about you at all
Sorry to say it doesn't matter what you do child support (assholes) always win
They even have the authority to call your place of employment to find out what you earn
I learnt that from experience
If you have a filthy maggot ex like me all you can do is quit your job and go on centerlink
$20 a fortnight is all they get then
And it's never about the kids is all about hurting the fathers
I have tried for years to beat the system and there isnt a way
I pay a ridiculous amount each week but child support don't care
So I pay child support on time per the assessment every month. My income went up slightly as I moved away for work and started working full time, also rented out my house and even though its a loss its taken into the CS calculation I believe. I now don't have the property. If I delay lodging my tax return do my Child Support payments get backdated and by how far? Or do they just change from when they were re assessed when I lodge my return? Any advice as I think I'm going to get slammed with a huge bill.
The question I have is regards to a phone call that I received from CSA today regarding change in Custodial arrangements as reported to them by an ex-wife.
I did the whole expensive Court Orders in the Family Court drama several years ago and it has been working fine until my son decided 2 years ago to stop coming to my place. His mother has always been tying to get me out of his life and when he stopped coming to my place she would have been happy with that.
So my question is can CSA force me to back pay total payments for the last 2 years? I have always paid what the CSA has dictated and have never missed a payment.
So if a child decides to stop coming to my place does this change my CSA payments and can it be back dated and if not then what are my options?
I am hoping that someone can provide me with some options.
I’m sure a few of you have been or are in the same situation as I am at the moment.
Around twelve years ago I had a very brief relationship and since then have been paying child support. Over the years my wage has increased to the point where CS is charging me an exorbitant amount. I have no problem with paying CS even after being trapped into this situation but do not wish to be robbed blind.
My main question is;
if I were to leave my current employer, create a company and be a director of that company, become an employee of that company and be paid around 80k per annum as reportable income to CS and the company invested any profits into say property or shares, can CS touch any bank accounts/shares/property that are in the company’s name being that it is a separate entity to myself?
I don’t have any other children so having a taxable income of 80k and CS taking want they deem to be correct should be more than enough to raise a child in good stead.
Thanks for your input everyone,
I can't even afford to eat well each week
I couldn't even afford a ferry ticket to manly
Yes they can freeze you from leaving the country, happened to me. Had to pay to leave and it’s the last time I have stepped foot back in Australia. If you have been through the family law process and CSA your are guilty until you prove otherwise. They will fax you a letter and it will have the ramifications worded in the content of what will happen if you try and leave the country through customs. Federal police will arrest you on the spot. Try work out the minimum payment so you can work. Otherwise prepare a case for losses earnings and reputation. Very difficult and costly for you to hit them with legalities as they are a government body.
And for any mothers reading this thinking 'oh you don't understand, you're not in their position'. Firstly, thank god - every time I think about her I'm grateful that I wasn't born a nasty, bitter, vindictive, spiteful b*tch. Secondly, I'll never be in her position because my children will always come first. Money doesn't make people happy...it certainly isn't making her happy.
Has anyone had any experience/luck with the AAT by any chance?
I know it might seem a little out of the ordinary, but I'm with the fathers here. I feel for you guys, especially when you're doing the right thing by your child.
We can't win guys
It's all a f##cking joke
To be most effective you should be putting your energy into getting the recieving parent to agree to a private arrangement and getting the state away from you. This is usually quite challenging though it is a short cut in the process, saving time, money and a truckload of negative emotions. Here the warrior applies creativity, assertiveness, negotiation and lets' go of the ego/victim mentality.
There are ways and means to stand against this ruthless monster titled the CSA. We cannot grant it authority or permit it entry into our lives. If it enters we must ensure it exits ASAP before too much damage is done.
The whole system is f##ked
your own court action. Negotiate conditions with the other parent, mediate, quit your job, go on a sickness benefit (because you really aren't well. Do what ever it takes to get the other parent to make that CSA phone call and remove the STATE out of your life so that you can live. You can then take control over how you want to contribute to your children's lives.
Welcome to the nightmare called the CSA, and it will only keep getting worse!
As I mentioned in another response, you can try lodging an application with the AAT (Administrative Appeals Tribunal). Don't delay! Such applications are very time consuming, hence most people don't bother, or quit mid process. In my opinion it is worth a try. They are separate from and independent to the CSA.
Once the CSA have you in their crosshairs there are not many options open to you and your partner. That being said, as has already been mentioned (by Berto?), if you can legally reside and work in another country, do so immediately.
As "Mark from WA, United Kingdom on November 7, 2019 @ 2:44 am" wrote, another option to escape being unfairly hounded by the CSA, albeit an extreme one, is suicide.
Best of luck.
You need to understand that your ATO and CSA taxable incomes can, and often are, different. very different! The CSA will grab at anything, even your rent allowance: to them this is an income. There are many other examples of this money grabbing if you care to Google. You will get nowhere appealing internally to the CSA, they are biased. You need to lodge an application with the AAT (Administrative Appeals Tribunal). If you don't do this in the correct timeframe you will first have to apply for an extension of time, which is not always successful. So don't delay! Such applications are very time consuming, hence most people don't bother. In my opinion it is worth a try. They are separate from and independent to the CSA.
For what it's worth I don't believe you are being unreasonable, but then I am not the final decision maker. Good luck Jake from WA!
Given to live near my work as required. My second appeal was rejected and the tribunal seems like a waste of time as there is not enough policy to guide us. The case managers can go above and beyond to fuck you. I currently pay 22k for child support, after school care and school fees. Next year because of the cost of living I will be paying 32k and not be able to afford to live. Can anyone please provide advise. If you think I’m being unreasonable I would also appreciate your honesty