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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Ok to discard you like trash but put out the hand to take you money. $610 a week child support. I will pay for my kids any day, no problem but no one needs this much weekly for two kids. This is just funding her crossfit, morning coffees, overseas holidays and paying her mortgage. I will never understand someone wanting to "win" over another person, if I was in a position to do that I would make sure the kids saw their mum and everything was amicable and chilled out.
Pretty hard to respect a person that puts themselves before their kids but puts on a fake persona that they are all for their kids. Also hard to respect someone who yearly takes money from The Smith family charity when it is not needed. Also to apply for local government sport assist to pay sport fees for kids and then pretending she paid, she doesn't know I know this one. Charity and assistance are for people in need. Trust me if you visited the ex's house which was my house, the one I worked FIFO for years to build and if you saw the lifestyle it well above the average of the population.
I am in a bedroom in someone's house getting by day to day, lot's of debt and can only count the days until I am free from control and financial drain. Two years left now. I have been counting for so long now.
It astounds me that this story is so common. Can't people just be nice to each other. Have a conversation to end things and work out what is best for the kids, share the assets etc.
Instead it turns into a greedy grab and a game of keepy off with the children. In the case of my ex this was the only way she was going to get ahead in life. She never worked (hence the need to FIFO) was a lazy person, sat on her arse watching TV when I got home from work everyday. They see the financial gain which as a certainty. Winning lotto not likely and the thought of working not appealing. So they cheat on their husband, put on some tears in court to get a vro base don lies, control you completely until the kids are eighteen.
Two years to go. 24 months. 104 weeks. There is light at the end of this crazy tunnel
I'm sorry to read of the horrific situation you now find yourself in.
Parenting Orders aren't really worth the paper they are written on - as you are finding out. There is no punishment when the orders are continually contravened. Many parents are subjected to this contempt of court, usually without recourse. Unless you are willing to spend a small fortune. Also, because you are happily re-married, your ex will continually hold this against you. Alienator's will think nothing of using your shared children to get back at you.
What you are now going through is Parental Alienation (Google it). You need to understand this, you need to nip this in the bud immediately because time is the alienator's best friend. Time is your worst enemy in this case.
Join these groups, they are really very helpful.
Best of luck!
You might find some useful information in my blog.
My heritage is samoan and the ex had my daughters tonsils removed because " samoans have oversize tonsils which causes her to snore therefore must be removed" my daughter has flat feet and yes you guessed it because shes samoan. My daughter is overweight and i have brought it up with the ex and the same thing its because she is yes samoan. I deal with a spiteful person and i need to beg her for permission to let me see my kids I drive an hour and a half to pick my kids up, on many occasions on arrival to the pick up destination ill receive a text saying the kids arent coming with you this weekend. I hold back tears and drive home.
I launched my False Allegations Research Project 4 April 2020. To date I have emailed 12 surveys, of which 2 have been returned to me completed.
Many of us have been the unfortunate recipients of False Allegations in the Family Courts in Australia, so now is your time to have your say. The more respondents who take part in the survey the more accurate will be the data, and consequently, the final report about the crisis us falsely accused find ourselves in. I am hoping to receive a minimum of "300" completed surveys. More would be ideal.
I am undertaking this research project because 10-years ago this month (April Fool's Day to be precise) I was falsely accused of abusing my then 33-month old son in the Family Court of WA. In July of this year I will have been alienated from him for 10-years. No contact at all. Not even a photo or school report. And yet, I have still had to pay child support!
Rather than get angry and bitter and twisted, I am hoping to use the results of my research project to highlight the problem, and to bring about change and accountability.
You can find more details about the project, including the survey document by clicking on the link below.
Please feel free to pass on this link to anyone you feel may want to take part who are not members of this group. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org.
Thank you, Mark Kosmider
3 Chidren, 9,10 and soon to turn 13
13 year old lives with Dad. As she will be turning 13 soon his child support is increasing. (Teenagers cost more, yes ok) BUT get this, the mother who has the younger 2 kids gets the extra money from him, when the child lives with him!
Teenager with Dad going to cost him more, but he has to pay more maintenance?? What
I had the same happen to me: one year the CSA inflated my income by about $30k. Unfortunately the CSA have multiple ways of assessing income. Your ATO assessment is only part of the process. They can assess you on your potential! Such as your potential to earn cash money, which industries like your are notorious for. If not done so already you need to lodge a change of assessment. If this is unsuccessful you need to appeal their decision. If your appeal is unsuccessful you need to lodge an application with the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Give the time that has elapsed, you may need to lodge extension of time applications for you can a lodge your appeals.
Also, and I am not saying you do, but if your income is X and yet your lifestyle suggests an income of Y, then you can find yourself paying inflated child support.
Lastly, join this group if you haven't already - they may be able to offer more comprehensive advice. https://www.facebook.com/groups/178235639470260/
I'm just a mechanic.... never in my wildest dreams have I earnt that type of money
Word cannot describe the pain of losing your beautiful daughter to suicide, let alone as a result of a negligent and faceless system, the CSA. My heart goes out to you mate, I'm crying just thinking of what you're going through, I really feel for you mate. Please ensure you seek help (Mens helpline) to process the grief and don't let the loss of your daughter go unanswered. The CSA needs to know what has transpired as a result of their actions.
Michael's story is horrific to say the least. Just this forum alone there are nearly 2000 recorded incidents of threats, bulling, harassment, manipulation and cohesion by the CSA. This incidents should be shared with a local member of parliament. While I agree with comments the system is designed to ensure non paying fathers support their kids, it's the fathers who pay and care for their kids that get hit the hardest. I have my kids 50/50 pay all their bills and child support, yet I too get the wrong end of the stick from the CSA. The system is poorly governed, staff not trained to deal with men who are at the lowest point in their lives and I daresay staff at CSA are on a monthly collections target. They use a calculation algorithm that does not take into account an individual's financial situation and heavily bias against the 'payer'. The system is broken!
The CSA, in the majority of cases, is the first touch point of acknowledging our failed relationship with our ex and the breakdown of our family unit. At this point we are emotionally venerable, we are process grief and living life one day at a time. This juncture of our lives is very, very dark with extreme emotional pain that simply won't subside. It is at this point CSA grace us with their presence. I know I've been there! While it wouldn't be hard to link it back to the actions of the CSA, I would suggest that the proportion of the 45 men who commit suicide each week some would be attributed to the actions of the CSA. The CSA staff need to be able to deal with men who are suffering from mental health issues due to trauma of having their lives ripped apart. The CSA need to implement a system that empower their cases managers to review each case separately and to offer free counseling along with mental and emotional health support groups. They need to have a system that is non bias to either the payee or payer and take into consideration all aspects of the payer's financial situation... But nothing is done about it!
If each and every one of us who posted on Father 4 Justice wrote a letter to Hon Kevin Andrews MP who's leading the reform of Family Law and Child Support Laws on their experiences with CSA and suggested reforms ,i.e. treat us as individuals not just a number in the system we might be heard. We all need to be heard for sake our children and the sake of all the great Dads out there being abused by the CSA and broken family court system.
Write your letters/emails to:
Hon Kevin Andrews MP
1st Floor 651-653 Doncaster Road
Doncaster, VIC, 3108
PH: 03 98489900
Ref Media Release:
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Now, I’m told the inheritance I was to receive for my deceased mother has now been taken by Child Support (by law) and there’s nothing I can do about it.
So be warned people, CSA don’t believe anything you say, don’t give a shit about what you say, and honestly don’t care about you at all
Sorry to say it doesn't matter what you do child support (assholes) always win
They even have the authority to call your place of employment to find out what you earn
I learnt that from experience
If you have a filthy maggot ex like me all you can do is quit your job and go on centerlink
$20 a fortnight is all they get then
And it's never about the kids is all about hurting the fathers
I have tried for years to beat the system and there isnt a way
I pay a ridiculous amount each week but child support don't care
So I pay child support on time per the assessment every month. My income went up slightly as I moved away for work and started working full time, also rented out my house and even though its a loss its taken into the CS calculation I believe. I now don't have the property. If I delay lodging my tax return do my Child Support payments get backdated and by how far? Or do they just change from when they were re assessed when I lodge my return? Any advice as I think I'm going to get slammed with a huge bill.
The question I have is regards to a phone call that I received from CSA today regarding change in Custodial arrangements as reported to them by an ex-wife.
I did the whole expensive Court Orders in the Family Court drama several years ago and it has been working fine until my son decided 2 years ago to stop coming to my place. His mother has always been tying to get me out of his life and when he stopped coming to my place she would have been happy with that.
So my question is can CSA force me to back pay total payments for the last 2 years? I have always paid what the CSA has dictated and have never missed a payment.
So if a child decides to stop coming to my place does this change my CSA payments and can it be back dated and if not then what are my options?
I am hoping that someone can provide me with some options.
I’m sure a few of you have been or are in the same situation as I am at the moment.
Around twelve years ago I had a very brief relationship and since then have been paying child support. Over the years my wage has increased to the point where CS is charging me an exorbitant amount. I have no problem with paying CS even after being trapped into this situation but do not wish to be robbed blind.
My main question is;
if I were to leave my current employer, create a company and be a director of that company, become an employee of that company and be paid around 80k per annum as reportable income to CS and the company invested any profits into say property or shares, can CS touch any bank accounts/shares/property that are in the company’s name being that it is a separate entity to myself?
I don’t have any other children so having a taxable income of 80k and CS taking want they deem to be correct should be more than enough to raise a child in good stead.
Thanks for your input everyone,
I can't even afford to eat well each week
I couldn't even afford a ferry ticket to manly
Yes they can freeze you from leaving the country, happened to me. Had to pay to leave and it’s the last time I have stepped foot back in Australia. If you have been through the family law process and CSA your are guilty until you prove otherwise. They will fax you a letter and it will have the ramifications worded in the content of what will happen if you try and leave the country through customs. Federal police will arrest you on the spot. Try work out the minimum payment so you can work. Otherwise prepare a case for losses earnings and reputation. Very difficult and costly for you to hit them with legalities as they are a government body.
And for any mothers reading this thinking 'oh you don't understand, you're not in their position'. Firstly, thank god - every time I think about her I'm grateful that I wasn't born a nasty, bitter, vindictive, spiteful b*tch. Secondly, I'll never be in her position because my children will always come first. Money doesn't make people happy...it certainly isn't making her happy.
Has anyone had any experience/luck with the AAT by any chance?
I know it might seem a little out of the ordinary, but I'm with the fathers here. I feel for you guys, especially when you're doing the right thing by your child.
We can't win guys
It's all a f##cking joke
To be most effective you should be putting your energy into getting the recieving parent to agree to a private arrangement and getting the state away from you. This is usually quite challenging though it is a short cut in the process, saving time, money and a truckload of negative emotions. Here the warrior applies creativity, assertiveness, negotiation and lets' go of the ego/victim mentality.
There are ways and means to stand against this ruthless monster titled the CSA. We cannot grant it authority or permit it entry into our lives. If it enters we must ensure it exits ASAP before too much damage is done.
The whole system is f##ked
your own court action. Negotiate conditions with the other parent, mediate, quit your job, go on a sickness benefit (because you really aren't well. Do what ever it takes to get the other parent to make that CSA phone call and remove the STATE out of your life so that you can live. You can then take control over how you want to contribute to your children's lives.
Welcome to the nightmare called the CSA, and it will only keep getting worse!
As I mentioned in another response, you can try lodging an application with the AAT (Administrative Appeals Tribunal). Don't delay! Such applications are very time consuming, hence most people don't bother, or quit mid process. In my opinion it is worth a try. They are separate from and independent to the CSA.
Once the CSA have you in their crosshairs there are not many options open to you and your partner. That being said, as has already been mentioned (by Berto?), if you can legally reside and work in another country, do so immediately.
As "Mark from WA, United Kingdom on November 7, 2019 @ 2:44 am" wrote, another option to escape being unfairly hounded by the CSA, albeit an extreme one, is suicide.
Best of luck.
You need to understand that your ATO and CSA taxable incomes can, and often are, different. very different! The CSA will grab at anything, even your rent allowance: to them this is an income. There are many other examples of this money grabbing if you care to Google. You will get nowhere appealing internally to the CSA, they are biased. You need to lodge an application with the AAT (Administrative Appeals Tribunal). If you don't do this in the correct timeframe you will first have to apply for an extension of time, which is not always successful. So don't delay! Such applications are very time consuming, hence most people don't bother. In my opinion it is worth a try. They are separate from and independent to the CSA.
For what it's worth I don't believe you are being unreasonable, but then I am not the final decision maker. Good luck Jake from WA!
Given to live near my work as required. My second appeal was rejected and the tribunal seems like a waste of time as there is not enough policy to guide us. The case managers can go above and beyond to fuck you. I currently pay 22k for child support, after school care and school fees. Next year because of the cost of living I will be paying 32k and not be able to afford to live. Can anyone please provide advise. If you think I’m being unreasonable I would also appreciate your honesty
Call me.Think of the kids.
If you are having no joy appealing directly to the CSA to reduce your assessment, then your only real option, and success is in no way guaranteed, is to lodge an appeal with the AAT (https://www.aat.gov.au/). If they decline your first application appeal this - it's just he game you have to play. It is a lengthy cumbersome process, so don't give up.
Deceitful X wife and all the bull shit.( still got shit going on, she wont leave me alone and just see my kids)
Mate to be as up front as I can I told child support to fuck off and I will never ever give that deceitful thieving C--t a cent and I told them I know your recording the call, I know your account is at $40k and feel free to play it back to the b--ch.
Shane mate and anyone else call me for a chat or email me if you can't talk (I go through times when I can't talk either)
0419 926 521 or email@example.com
We are loosing more men a year (and it's not just about the men) than we did in the Vietnam war in 6 f--k'n years.
WTF if wrong with this hey??
Call, text opr emasil, I have lost to many people I know because of this fucked up system.
Happy to chat, court tomorrow morning, wish me luck..
The X just accused me of sexually abusing the kids.
4 months she will keep them from getting together.(long story she was investigated April before last for belting the shit out of my 5 year old Daughter)
What a complete bottom of the barrel shit to do.
Mate's we need to try to fix this shit, not for us because it's too late for us but for our children.
So sorry guy's however I'm really pissed this time.
Happy to chat if you want to call.
If you suspect your wife is working cash in hand, and thus avoiding paying tax, report her to the ATO. The ATO will be more interested than the CSA. However, be sure to Cc the CSA.
I recently call the child support agency as i was advised that my ex was working cash in hand as a hairdresser for 2-3 days and also working as a receptionist for the other days. I rang the agency and asked them about this, to which they responded that if they start a investigation and they find that she is, they will not necessarily rule in my favour. My children are 16 and 17, how when the kids are at that age and fully self sufficient is one person working part time not taken into calculations.
Additionally i also recently that my days of care was severely under calculated and had it altered, this did not result in any change to the calculation, however if my pay jumps in the slightest it is re-calculated.
All this may sound like i am a whinging dad, I always wanted custody of my children and I always do everything i can, both financially and emotionally. Being told she is allowed to get away with cheating the system by working cash in hand and she doesn't have to work full time because she makes enough from the child support is not a fair situation, working part time when there is no reason should be taken into the calculations.
The kicker was when talking to child support i was spoken too like i was a dead beat dad for bringing the above to their attention, i even had to ask the operator i was talking to, to please stop talking over me and that the message when calling asks the customers to talk to them with respect so i would expect the same.
I hope that there is someone from the government that reads it and finally does something about it
I hope that the gentleman has good support from family and friends
Our hearts are with you mate
My issue is that my wishes as a parent were never considered. I had no choice but to let the CSA decide what they think is best for the child, with no reference to her, her life or her situation. My objections were solely considered financial and the CSA forced me to comply with my ex and their rulings.
My beautiful daughter killed herself. I am broken. How can a government debt collecting agency over rule what the parent considers is best for the child?
Pauline Hanson is trying to sort all this b/s out
Send to PM instead- lets see how christian he really is.
Child support for son ended in November 2018. But I am currently still providing child support for daughter.
daughter resided with me in Victoria, in January 2018 for 6 months and then decided she didn’t want to live with me due to my expectations of her attending school and getting a after school job. She went back to her mothers, in June 2018.
I have had concerns since she has returned to her mother’s place, At 16 years old she went a lived with her boyfriend and started to receive Independent allowance (I believe living away from home allowance) through Centrelink, as she told the counsellor at Centrelink she could not live with either parent, which was not the case, she chose to not live with her parents.
Because of this, daughter was pregnant at the age of 16.
My daughter has split from her boyfriend and resides back with her mother, (mother) has applied for child support which was approved as daughter as she is classed as a dependent (mother receives $16.200 pa ) , but daughter is receiving a single parenting payment and child support from the baby’s father.
I have made contact with Child Support through Centrelink regarding child support, as I do not believe I should be paying this as my daughter is independent, to be told that it’s a Centrelink matter.
I would like more clarification around this, I am happy to support my daughter but if she is receiving payments already, then I should not be made to pay child support.
To CSA. Complaint 1. I received a wadd of letters today (2nd Dec 2019) are all (dated 25th Nov 2019), which is dating back from 1st July 2011- 30th April 2013. None of this makes sense, HOWEVER, from 1st Jan 2010 – 2nd Dec 2019, I have paid $12,234.63 according to my payment summary. Complaint 2. I was expecting paperwork in regard the mistake made by CSA - here is the reference number R39218185 of the call whom I spoke with Di. Instead I received the wadd of letters mentioned above in complaint 1. Complaint 3. It is ludicrous that CSA is only available by phone until 4:35pm, when the working FATHERS are still at work and can't call. Adding to this, CSA has no place to make online enquiries, EXCEPT if it is a complaint, like what I am having to do here. Please get one of your people to call me after 3:30pm (Adelaide time) on a weekday. If I am unable to answer, please give me the courtesy of leaving a voice message.
Please don't do anything that your kids will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
I have lost 3 mates over the last couple of years and they all left innocent kids behind, not fair and not their fault either.
The kids are all fucked up now!!
Now Guys or Mate's,call me anytime 0419 926 521 (call or text and I will call you back, I promise)
I don't want to lose anyone else because of the fuck'n system.
Stay strong and keep breathing my friends.
Now she has made a report to the powers that be that I have been sexually abusing my kids.
Just when I thought there was nothing more she could do to me.
My poor son text me on his phone and asked why I didn't pick them up on Friday, he was told nothing of course..He is absolutely spewing on how and why his Mother would do this.
My poor kids, it's so not fair.
Has anyone got some advice or something?
I have spoken to the investigating officer on Friday but he wouldn't tell me anything.
call me or text on 0419 926 521
Child support (legalized bullies) have the hide to tell me to find somewhere cheaper so I can pay more child support
Seriously what has Australia become
I'm really f**king over this shit with them
It's not worth getting up every morning and going to work
I live like a pauper every week as it is
The system is f**cked