- Your Say - Re: Family Court probes suicides
- By As Named
- The Age
- 19/08/2003 Make a Comment
- Contributed by: admin ( 75 articles in 2003 )
Your Say
While every death by suicide conjures a victim's own demons, there are often broader messages that warrant a community's closer examination if people are to understand why so many Australian men are choosing death as the solution to their troubles.
What can be done to stop so many Australian men from taking their own lives?
What you said.
My 29 year old husband committed suicide 12 months ago by slamming his car into a tree. He had photos of our two children under his jumper. Our marriage had broken up 3 months earlier and he was very depressed as was I. He was always a user of marajuana and I knew this made things worse. The thing is that he did ask for help. He went to the police.He told me and his family and friends he thought about suicide and even sat up a tree with a rope once. He was admitted as a voluntary patient at a psychiatric centre for a week, then released on antidepressants,but still killed himself.His family and friends blame me and I also carry a lot of guilt because of our break up.I am also very angry at being left with two children without a father. I guess the point I am trying to make is that he DID ask for help and he was failed miserably by the mental health system and everyone including myself. It is hard to prevent a suicide where there are no indicators but it seems that it is equally as hard when there are all the indications under the sun.It is a miserable place to be and as other people have said you don't "get over it" and the pain of it never leaves you.
Rose Gallagher
Thankfully someone is finally listening to men and their experiences in the Family Court of Australia. I am 34, divorced and have a mental health illness. Almost daily I struggle with thoughts of self harm and suicide. I am one of the lucky ones. I survived the Family Court process but only just. For 3 years I have sought assistance from my psychiatrist, pyschologist and rehabilitation consultant.Without these support structures I would not have made it through the ordeal of settlement and divorce. The law is such that I am prevented from going into the details of my divorce settlement. I am not allowed to mention what happened, who was involved and the trauma that I was put through by solicitors who attacked every vulnerable area of my well being. Who does this law protect - solicitors and barristers thats all. Regardless of letters from doctors and psychologists stating that I was extremely unwell I was more or less forced to settle due to the extreme pressures placed on me by the rules of The Family Court.In their literature the Family Court states they are a helping court. I now know that this is a fallacy.I was left to deal with frightening emotions, terrifying thoughts and driven to act in way that was completly out of character for me. My saving grace is my determination and willingness to face my problems. Yet because of the laws protecting solicitors (they cannot be named and neither can the registrar) I have to accept a decision not based on what I gave to my ten year marriage but on money. If I was permitted by law to release my settlement documents there is little doubt that there would be questions raised. It is a shame that I cannot speak openly about these issues and here we have the problem. Men need to be allowed to open up, accept their emotions and not allow a misguided system to bully them into a situation where they think taking their own lives is the only solution.We need to stand up and be counted. The Family Court must now listen to us, hear us and recognise and acknowledge that men have real problems and need to be helped through the trauma of separation and divorce.
Simon John Croucher
To K. Stewart.
To say that blaming the Family Court for suicides is ridiculous indicates that you have no experience in this system. It is one that leaves most men powerless.
To see the devastation, the ongoing assault from this system and how it impacts so many lives first hand is horrendous.
You say that depression is caused by many things - unemployment, homelessness, mental illness. Many men up against the Family law system have lost their support network, the have lost their partner, their children and quite often the home and by default a minimum 25% of their pre-tax income.
Try functioning when just one of those things happen. Many men in this situation often lose their jobs because they are unable to cope & function with every day life.
It is a situation that spirals out of control very quickly. And yet there are limited support networks. Anyone who cannot see the effects of this system on men involved in are in denial.
Not all men who commit suicide are involved in the family law system. However, I am sure the statistic is much higher than most would expect.
Margaret White
"It's sickening to see see men's groups continually bagging the Family Court, who do a reasonable job in the most difficult cases imaginable" - K Stewart.
Gee, let me guess, K Stewart - your a female who has benefitted or never known any loving fathers who have had their assets stripped or minimal access with their children as a result of a biased Family Court decision. Get off your high horse, who the hell do you think you are making such a general statement when thousands of men are suffering as a result.
Gregor Firestone
I have, and I'm being very honest here, thought of this quite a deal, because I have survived attempted suicide, or more correctly I stopped at the point of choosing a possible way to die, being frightened of the possibility of survival, and being frightened of the hurt, one way or another, that this action would cause to family.
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE! The movers and shakers of this world need to make opportunities available for ALL. They need to ensure that there IS adequate support for teens and young adults who can't or are not coping with this world. They NEED to make meaningful, gainful employment available to ALL, and not just go on about how this is a need.
Most speeches by ex pollies or well meaning social workers and shrinks end up turning into platitudinous nonsense They preach to the converted and they cry to the insufferable ones who sympathies, and cry to the ones that already know the darkness and the pain of failure..
It needs to happen.. The sympathy is terrible, the blame immediately put on a consumerist society, that is partly true, but an easy scape goat for those that have succeeded, or have been lucky enough to survive the knocks and come out ok at the other end.
Life, you see, is a piece of shit, and its not always nice, some just can't get beyond the dark days and find courage in death and endless darkness. I suspect that some that have died are the most beautiful and talented of young Australians, and I?m not being overly sentimental. The struggling people of this world need real action, not more words.
David Finnis
This issue is not the Family Court and its propensity to award custody of children to mothers.
The issue is male suicide. Not "mail suicide due to experiences in the family court". Look at the broader picture. Look at the incidents reported in the Age. Some suicided after the breakdown of a marriage and or relationship. Others did not. Marriage breakdowns and experiences in the Family Court are just one possible factor in a whole host of others.
Male suicide is an issue in the community. As is youth suicide. As is marriage breakdowns, unemployment and general mental health.
Lets look at the broader picture and attempt to reach some better understanding of the bigger problem in order to reach many before its no to late. Lets not turn this into Family Court bashing and the unfair treatment of men.
A Jeans
Although I applaud The Age for putting some focus on this important topic, to suggest that there is an epidemic of male suicide specifically is somewhat misleading. More women than men actually attempt suicide, however, men have higher rates of suicides as they tend to use more effective methods than women.
While men and women are different, each have their own problems. I am offended by the poster who talked about men nearing retirement age being put out of their jobs by some 'young upstart' who is probably female. Young people of both genders don't exactly have a smooth run these days. Uni graduates frequently end up in jobs like call centres or retail that would previously have been occupied by school leavers, school leavers are lucky to get a job at all. The idea of paying off your own home is becoming a fairy tale. We have a federal government under which attitudes to anyone who is not white, straight, christian, and legally married with 2.3 children are actually regressing. Perhaps the psychiatric profession actually needs to be thanked for keeping suicide rates so low...
Timmy A
The Family Law system has a lot to answer for. Countless fathers, good men, being denied the right to be fathers. Countless children having limited or no relationship with their fathers. And then there is 'surprise' that men are depressed and/or suicidal.
The carnage that the system leaves behind is criminal. The current call for a report by the Fed Government is LONG overdue.
As a society we are fooling ourselves if we believe the current system works.
6% of cases end up before the courts because it is cost prohibitive and that men are expected to accept what their former partners.
From personal experience, did you know that as a father you are not allowed to show that you miss your children otherwise you will be deemed as emotionally unstable by the 'professional psychologists' who write reports for the court. Ofcourse a mother can cry, lie and deceive the same professionals and be more credible because of their 'emotional distress'.
Rosanne
I suffered from depression and anxiety for many years, my family has a history of manic depression. Last year one of my best friends took his life, so I know what suicide leaves behind.
Here are the steps that I've taken to rid myself of depression: (While I've still got a way to go, I've improved in leaps and bounds and I know that others will if they do the same).
-Medititation. Don't expect overnight results, but if you find a good approach and stick to it, you'll start to feel increasingly better. In the short term, you may actually feel worse, but thats simply its nature. Push on, and this will pass.
-Working with what the Chinese refer to as "chi". This is an energy force that runs through our body. When one has blockages with their chi, they suffer either physically, emotionally, mentally, or most likely all of these things. In regards to depression, balance your chi and you'll balance the neurotransmiters in your brain and hormones in your body that keep you happy. (If you don't believe this, see a kineoseologist- they look at things from both the western and eastern perspective).
Western medicine and science is behind the 8 ball when it comes to recognising chi but I guarantee its for real. I'm a sceptic myself and I had to have this proven to me. How? I saw a kineoseologist, and believe me, he had ways and means of proving it.
If your sceptical, I suggest seeing/ talking with a kineoseologist, an acupunturist, a martial arts expert, a reiki practitioner or a shiatsu practitioner. While they can enlighten you to the existance of chi, if you recieve their treatment, you will start to feel less depressed. Again, don't expect overnight results.
Michael Arvanitakis
More comments from Your Say...
Back to Family Court probes suicides article
While every death by suicide conjures a victim's own demons, there are often broader messages that warrant a community's closer examination if people are to understand why so many Australian men are choosing death as the solution to their troubles.
What can be done to stop so many Australian men from taking their own lives?
What you said.
My 29 year old husband committed suicide 12 months ago by slamming his car into a tree. He had photos of our two children under his jumper. Our marriage had broken up 3 months earlier and he was very depressed as was I. He was always a user of marajuana and I knew this made things worse. The thing is that he did ask for help. He went to the police.He told me and his family and friends he thought about suicide and even sat up a tree with a rope once. He was admitted as a voluntary patient at a psychiatric centre for a week, then released on antidepressants,but still killed himself.His family and friends blame me and I also carry a lot of guilt because of our break up.I am also very angry at being left with two children without a father. I guess the point I am trying to make is that he DID ask for help and he was failed miserably by the mental health system and everyone including myself. It is hard to prevent a suicide where there are no indicators but it seems that it is equally as hard when there are all the indications under the sun.It is a miserable place to be and as other people have said you don't "get over it" and the pain of it never leaves you.
Rose Gallagher
Thankfully someone is finally listening to men and their experiences in the Family Court of Australia. I am 34, divorced and have a mental health illness. Almost daily I struggle with thoughts of self harm and suicide. I am one of the lucky ones. I survived the Family Court process but only just. For 3 years I have sought assistance from my psychiatrist, pyschologist and rehabilitation consultant.Without these support structures I would not have made it through the ordeal of settlement and divorce. The law is such that I am prevented from going into the details of my divorce settlement. I am not allowed to mention what happened, who was involved and the trauma that I was put through by solicitors who attacked every vulnerable area of my well being. Who does this law protect - solicitors and barristers thats all. Regardless of letters from doctors and psychologists stating that I was extremely unwell I was more or less forced to settle due to the extreme pressures placed on me by the rules of The Family Court.In their literature the Family Court states they are a helping court. I now know that this is a fallacy.I was left to deal with frightening emotions, terrifying thoughts and driven to act in way that was completly out of character for me. My saving grace is my determination and willingness to face my problems. Yet because of the laws protecting solicitors (they cannot be named and neither can the registrar) I have to accept a decision not based on what I gave to my ten year marriage but on money. If I was permitted by law to release my settlement documents there is little doubt that there would be questions raised. It is a shame that I cannot speak openly about these issues and here we have the problem. Men need to be allowed to open up, accept their emotions and not allow a misguided system to bully them into a situation where they think taking their own lives is the only solution.We need to stand up and be counted. The Family Court must now listen to us, hear us and recognise and acknowledge that men have real problems and need to be helped through the trauma of separation and divorce.
Simon John Croucher
To K. Stewart.
To say that blaming the Family Court for suicides is ridiculous indicates that you have no experience in this system. It is one that leaves most men powerless.
To see the devastation, the ongoing assault from this system and how it impacts so many lives first hand is horrendous.
You say that depression is caused by many things - unemployment, homelessness, mental illness. Many men up against the Family law system have lost their support network, the have lost their partner, their children and quite often the home and by default a minimum 25% of their pre-tax income.
Try functioning when just one of those things happen. Many men in this situation often lose their jobs because they are unable to cope & function with every day life.
It is a situation that spirals out of control very quickly. And yet there are limited support networks. Anyone who cannot see the effects of this system on men involved in are in denial.
Not all men who commit suicide are involved in the family law system. However, I am sure the statistic is much higher than most would expect.
Margaret White
"It's sickening to see see men's groups continually bagging the Family Court, who do a reasonable job in the most difficult cases imaginable" - K Stewart.
Gee, let me guess, K Stewart - your a female who has benefitted or never known any loving fathers who have had their assets stripped or minimal access with their children as a result of a biased Family Court decision. Get off your high horse, who the hell do you think you are making such a general statement when thousands of men are suffering as a result.
Gregor Firestone
I have, and I'm being very honest here, thought of this quite a deal, because I have survived attempted suicide, or more correctly I stopped at the point of choosing a possible way to die, being frightened of the possibility of survival, and being frightened of the hurt, one way or another, that this action would cause to family.
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE! The movers and shakers of this world need to make opportunities available for ALL. They need to ensure that there IS adequate support for teens and young adults who can't or are not coping with this world. They NEED to make meaningful, gainful employment available to ALL, and not just go on about how this is a need.
Most speeches by ex pollies or well meaning social workers and shrinks end up turning into platitudinous nonsense They preach to the converted and they cry to the insufferable ones who sympathies, and cry to the ones that already know the darkness and the pain of failure..
It needs to happen.. The sympathy is terrible, the blame immediately put on a consumerist society, that is partly true, but an easy scape goat for those that have succeeded, or have been lucky enough to survive the knocks and come out ok at the other end.
Life, you see, is a piece of shit, and its not always nice, some just can't get beyond the dark days and find courage in death and endless darkness. I suspect that some that have died are the most beautiful and talented of young Australians, and I?m not being overly sentimental. The struggling people of this world need real action, not more words.
David Finnis
This issue is not the Family Court and its propensity to award custody of children to mothers.
The issue is male suicide. Not "mail suicide due to experiences in the family court". Look at the broader picture. Look at the incidents reported in the Age. Some suicided after the breakdown of a marriage and or relationship. Others did not. Marriage breakdowns and experiences in the Family Court are just one possible factor in a whole host of others.
Male suicide is an issue in the community. As is youth suicide. As is marriage breakdowns, unemployment and general mental health.
Lets look at the broader picture and attempt to reach some better understanding of the bigger problem in order to reach many before its no to late. Lets not turn this into Family Court bashing and the unfair treatment of men.
A Jeans
Although I applaud The Age for putting some focus on this important topic, to suggest that there is an epidemic of male suicide specifically is somewhat misleading. More women than men actually attempt suicide, however, men have higher rates of suicides as they tend to use more effective methods than women.
While men and women are different, each have their own problems. I am offended by the poster who talked about men nearing retirement age being put out of their jobs by some 'young upstart' who is probably female. Young people of both genders don't exactly have a smooth run these days. Uni graduates frequently end up in jobs like call centres or retail that would previously have been occupied by school leavers, school leavers are lucky to get a job at all. The idea of paying off your own home is becoming a fairy tale. We have a federal government under which attitudes to anyone who is not white, straight, christian, and legally married with 2.3 children are actually regressing. Perhaps the psychiatric profession actually needs to be thanked for keeping suicide rates so low...
Timmy A
The Family Law system has a lot to answer for. Countless fathers, good men, being denied the right to be fathers. Countless children having limited or no relationship with their fathers. And then there is 'surprise' that men are depressed and/or suicidal.
The carnage that the system leaves behind is criminal. The current call for a report by the Fed Government is LONG overdue.
As a society we are fooling ourselves if we believe the current system works.
6% of cases end up before the courts because it is cost prohibitive and that men are expected to accept what their former partners.
From personal experience, did you know that as a father you are not allowed to show that you miss your children otherwise you will be deemed as emotionally unstable by the 'professional psychologists' who write reports for the court. Ofcourse a mother can cry, lie and deceive the same professionals and be more credible because of their 'emotional distress'.
Rosanne
I suffered from depression and anxiety for many years, my family has a history of manic depression. Last year one of my best friends took his life, so I know what suicide leaves behind.
Here are the steps that I've taken to rid myself of depression: (While I've still got a way to go, I've improved in leaps and bounds and I know that others will if they do the same).
-Medititation. Don't expect overnight results, but if you find a good approach and stick to it, you'll start to feel increasingly better. In the short term, you may actually feel worse, but thats simply its nature. Push on, and this will pass.
-Working with what the Chinese refer to as "chi". This is an energy force that runs through our body. When one has blockages with their chi, they suffer either physically, emotionally, mentally, or most likely all of these things. In regards to depression, balance your chi and you'll balance the neurotransmiters in your brain and hormones in your body that keep you happy. (If you don't believe this, see a kineoseologist- they look at things from both the western and eastern perspective).
Western medicine and science is behind the 8 ball when it comes to recognising chi but I guarantee its for real. I'm a sceptic myself and I had to have this proven to me. How? I saw a kineoseologist, and believe me, he had ways and means of proving it.
If your sceptical, I suggest seeing/ talking with a kineoseologist, an acupunturist, a martial arts expert, a reiki practitioner or a shiatsu practitioner. While they can enlighten you to the existance of chi, if you recieve their treatment, you will start to feel less depressed. Again, don't expect overnight results.
Michael Arvanitakis
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Back to Family Court probes suicides article
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