Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!
Start writing a comment now...
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How many Dads have been in or are in this position with the Ex, the Exes new dumb boyfriend, not seeing your child, a useless CSA and having provided financially for a child that DNA shows wasn't yours, not in a high paid job earning big bucks and now dealing with all the trust and other issues that this Dad and others are left with all when you pick the wrong woman?
Sheeeesh!
Well at least he's got a car, roof over his head and looks like he's in ok health, something to be grateful for I guess, as I'm sure he would agree, as some people are barely left with the shirt on their back.
Gee, hope the daughter's ok with a nuff-nuff boyfriend like that?
Download video: http://www.4shared.com/video/DEww3Wamce/dna_shock.html
Just read a post by John Anderson (http://www.f4joz.com/news/newspage.php?yr=13&id=94) who gives a clue as to who owns the CSA, and it certainly doesn't appear to be the Australian people.
So where is the money and interest on money really going??
My ex wife way back when all of this started was willing to accept a negotiated settlement of $30,000 dollars if she would call the CSA and cancel her account with them. CSA told her that if she accepted that money she was going to have to pay the CSA costs which at the time were $30,000 gaining her nothing and the CSA on her bum chasing money. The CSA were playing both sides effectively.
My thoughts on this are the CSA had written guarantees from me for a negotiated $30,000 dollars to finalise my account with them if they would agree. Because they didn't play ball my Ex lost a guaranteed 30k. Im wondering if she would have a case against the CSA for that money they chose to not accept
Got a phone call from my beloved CSA case officer Sandra this morning. For those of you that haven't followed my journey see previous posts. Now that the court proceedings have been finalised and consent order have been stamped Sandra called to see if the CSA could now "negotiate" with me to settle my account with them. I politely told Sandra that the CSA had 8 years to negotiate, but chose to bully and threaten me with jail time right to the end. She offered to remove the 30k in the CSA's legal costs that are on my monthly statement to which I replied that they had no legal jurisdiction to debit them to my account anyway. I then told her to remove the late payment fees and charges which she said she would do. (remains to be seen) leaving me with a negotiated "debt" of 20k which they are unable to enforce.
In Summary it has cost the tax payer $30,000 in 8 year old legal fees, $18,000 in their current legal costs and $12634.19 in costs awarded to me. Grand total of $60,000 actual tax payer dollars paid out for a total gain to the CSA of $0. I wonder who gets the kick in the pants.
I won't recommend any man to go to this place and either have a family or bring one with-you're asking for trouble.
The petition is addressed to the previous Labor Party Minister for Human Services. The new Liberal Party Minister for Human Services is Senator Marise Payne. Although the name of the Minister may have changed, the issues with the CSA still remain the same.
The link to the petition is provided below.
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/minister-for-human-services-implement-a-royal-commission-into-the-child-support-agency?share_id=NoxyjwAaCK&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition
As noted at the link, the petition has been organised by Peter Kelly of Avalon, NSW.
Your assistance would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
For example a mum, after the husband left her and 3 kids in favour of going off to have a good life without care or responsibility, didn't pursue child support for some 18mths of repeated broken promises by the EX that he would pay child support to her direct. This was even agreed to in mediation. However, the fact is it never happened and this mum was too good a person to invoke the CSA to spare the EX although he was well provided for.[Obviously the mum still thought she was in a husband/wife relationship of care, trust and loyality, but the truth was more like shock and denial and not understanding the narcissistic personality of her EX].
Anyway, being a mum on a low income from working p/t barely adequate enough to raise 3 kids and pay big debts ignored by the husband, the mother sought Centrelink(CL) for some relief; extra cash and a health care card. However, CL said they could only pay her a minimal sum as she had not been assessed by the CSA.
However, if she did pursue the child support assessment path, she would get alot more money from CL. In other words, mums are victimised both ways. If they let the father off child support, they barely get any CL funds. If they do pursue CS they get rewarded and often get grief from many Dads. Go figure.
There are no rulings or transcripts available as the CSA filed a Notice of Discontinuance effectively stopping The Full Bench making rulings, law changes and publishing of court documents.
I am willing to share by Private Messaging my barristers submissions and supplementary submissions to anyone in need.
I am also willing to meet if you live in the Illawarra.
Neil
I had a barrister tell the family court judge once when my ex was after me for a few thousand dollars, that "you don't give relief to the creditor by punishing the debtor." ie. as I had no assets. Yes, my ex wanted me in jail any way she could. She was a real bitch!!
Debtor's Act of 1869. An English statute that, among other things, (1) abolished imprisonment for debt except in certain cases, as when a debtor owed a debt to the Crown or a debtor had money but refused to pay a debt, (2) abolished arrest by mesne process, that is, by compelling the defendant to appear and give bail unless it was believed that the defendant would leave the country, (3) made it a misdemeanor to obtain credit under false pretenses or to defraud creditors, and (4) defined how warrants and judgment orders would be executed.
What really is a Summary Debt anyway?
In the first instance I would be arguing that the CSA has no power, jurisdiction or validity over another person or human being to impose and create such a fictional debt, and subsequently referring to anyone as a debtor. Even if one does have assets.
Courts don't jail people for reasons of debt - they'd all have to lock many people up including themselves up as many members in the judiciary and associates commit money fraud, theft and treason everyday. Defrauding money is a SHAM. Although, those in the know do it successfully, it doesn't mean they're not guilty. Those who don't do it well end up before the courts and having to pay others, simply due to their ignorance, foolishness or inexperience.
True and intentional dishonorable money transactions in this area is questionable and half the reason why we are in such a mess in today's economies all round the world.
Jailing a man costs the tax payers $600/night. No judge is going to spend that kind of money on trying to get a CSA debt from a person who obviously can’t pay. You have to realise that the court system/CSA/CentreLink/Dept Human Services is a business and if it costs more money to chase a person for a paper debt (Read Summary Debt) than it gets back from chasing them, it is not a financially viable decision. Believe it or not the courts and government departments are answerable for how they spend our tax money
In summary if you cant pay or you have hidden your money VERY well the CSA will chase you to the end of process will all the threats, bluff and bluster it can manage, but in reality has no teeth and really is just a school yard bully and a pain in the ass.
At The Appeal hearing the CSA brought against me for the leniency of the fine imposed ($1000)in the final hearing....they wanted 6 months custodial sentence....THE ONLY TIME I USED A BARRISTER...the full bench said to the CSA's barrister, Quote " We live in a modern age. By your submissions Mr Millar how many debtors prisons should we be building. This is not the 1700's. We do not jail people for the non payment of a Summary Debt.
Now don't get me wrong...You can be jailed ....but it will only be for contempt of court. eg You have given assets or money to a friend , new wife, brother etc. the CSA finds it and proves it LEAGALLY to a court, the judge orders you to return the money and pay your debt, and you fail to do so he can jail you with CONTEMPT.
There is not a court in Australia.....that includes the Family court.... that will send a person to jail for the non payment of a SUMMARY DEBT. I have just been dragged through the CSA court system under threat of jail right through its toothless end before the full bench of the Family Court where CSA Finally walked away before the law could be changed and published.
My Summary Debt still stands at $130,000.00 made up of a $43,000 of deemed CS and the rest is fees charges and costs imposed by the courts.
If you cant pay .....you cant pay. My course of action was to ignore the CSA until they dragged me to court. Then turn up to court ....alone....no solicitors, because if you can afford a solicitor you can afford to pay CS. Stand before the court and make them prove where your money and assets are. You will make mistakes.....that's ok....walk out of court and IGNORE them again until next time they drag you through. Eventually it ends.
1. Never marry or partner below your lot in life. That sounds like a very sad thing to say. But the system, be it CSA or the family court, is not equitable. The system rewards those that don't contribute and punishes those that do. So don't get yourself into the position of having to support someone because they can't support themselves.
2. Your time is valuable. The system will suck the life out of you. So after you divorce, every hour you spend fighting against the CSA or the Family Court or some communist in the system, is an hour you have lost getting yourself ahead. Now, don't get walked over! Stand up for yourself, but choose your battles because they will steal valuable time, and no one cares but you.
3. The most important. Your kids come first. So you won't have the nice house, car and holidays that your ex-wife enjoys on your money. However, what you offer your children is a greater benefit. Model good behaviour. Don't bad mouth the ex. Don't complain. Instill the finest behaviours of manhood into your sons, and teach your daughters the need to be self-sufficient, as the next generation of men won't marry below their lot in life.
Carter Hodder once wrote, "There are two lasting bequests we can give our children: One is roots, the other is wings.” Your ex, with all your life savings will give your children roots which will only last until they are 18. While you as a father have the greater challenge and more enduring relationship opportunity....you give your children wings.....and that gift my friends will last forever.
they will not investigate obvious discrepancies in the other partys paperwork and nor will they investigate my claim that i have already payed even when presented with signed receipts stating for child support and money orders stating the same.
its simple if they cannot investigate they hold no authority, they are not a court as they cannot even investigate the facts, their garnishment orders are toilet paper.
i work numerous jobs i have just instructed one employer not to allow garnishment as it is unlawful without a court order, the one that is currently garnishing will be notified next week, if i have to i will sue them.
i have had enough i have spent $60,000 over the course of my family court trials, i have never broken an order the other side has continually and never had any punishment, ive faced horrible accusations, which where even withdrawn at one point to save her own arse, still no punishment and she gets it all free.
i have the child support agency although small amounts relentlessly abusing my rights and forcing me to tender twice.
if i have to spend the rest of my life fighting to bring this system down then so be it i will welcome the challenge
yes we are being systematically destroyed but thats what they want the government wants broken family and destroyed fathers dont let them have this, yes its difficult but if we dont do this our kids face the same fate
i write for anyone whom cares to listen, read the bloody acts, where does it define liable parent? unless it changed recently it states, .....liable parent includes a grandparent.....
ok
most people dont understand what include means it has been coined the english language most misunderstood word.
if something is included it means all else is excluded, the child support act is a sham it holds no power, i have relayed this to the agency and ask them to show me the evidence that this applies to me, they will not reply!
we need numbers, people are successfully using this to defeat income tax the world over, read and unite people and stick to the facts do not let them sway you
use the pain to make the world a better place take the challenge, if your struggling find a way to make a living grow some food, sell some drugs? who gives a fuck! what else are they going to do? jail you? at least your financial issues will cease.
they want to keep us all fighting so they can keep fucking with us and so we dont unite, unite and destroy them!!!!!
What's the r'ship between your son and Ex like?
Does he support your son in some way or abandon him?
Ron is right - many good fathers have been worn out financially, physically and psychologically fighting to make the system fairer. Some are unable to get their life back in order or take a long time in doing so, some live on the streets and some just don't make it.
The fathers that care about the kids often get the short end of the stick as they try and do what's right, just like good mums, while other fathers who don't care seem to get to enjoy the benefits and easy life of looking after No.1 (themselves).
Many of us are all trying to do what we can when we can - it's all gotten a bit complicated to say the least.
Write to your local member, email (use the local library it's free) start exerting pressure. Post your letters and results here. I recently emailed Jenny Macklin and will post her response here. Stay strong men.
Who is safeguarding our nation against foreign ownership of Australian land, resources, jobs, our current cosy lifestyle and our kids' future!
If it all gets lost down the toilet because of sloth and ignorance, kiss goodbye all the hard work our forefathers did including sacrificing their lives for their children and grandchildren.
You better wake up Dads for if you don't STAND and UNITE together, there will be no Australia as you know it today, for your kids of tomorrow!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing!
Better solutions for Mum, Dad or the kids. NO! Just better cross matching to ensure paying parents are cyphoned of all their money in any bank account, even if they barely have enough to live on. More of us little fish being caught who have been screwed by our ex and system.
What about those mothers who get parenting payment, family payments, cash in hand, cash from 15 hrs of work on the books, child support from the ex, money from the new partner and money from daddy's BIG trust account. Hmmm... 7 income streams. Not bad for a mum who cries poor to everyone!!
WHAT A JOKE!
http://www.zdnet.com/au/australian-budget-2013-human-services-to-overhaul-child-support-it-system-7000015327/
they had made. They kept asking when I was going to pay it rather than accepting the error, so I asked to be transferred to any one else, finally I got the person with access to the brain cell for the`day. Who would pay 13 000 then ask for the problem to be solved?
At least then the burden of proof shifts slightly from what a party/barrister spins and gets away with to something a little bit more lawful, consistent and predictable.
I wouldn't go so far as to say fair, as most of it shouldn't happen anyway, but we could say manageable with the right lawyer and due process being adhered to. Sometimes it has to get darkest before dawn in that place before things start to change and heal.
We'd be all better going fishing!
The CSA is a dirty and ugly racket that needs exposing everywhere for the good of all.
Some references to judgments or submissions online would be helpful for all if that can be arranged. The more people armed the quicker this castle of archaic tyranny can fall in order that good ol common sense, fairness and equity be restored!
Was brought before justice Donald at parramatta and received a bond.
CSA didn't enforce the bond in time and started another hearing in Sydney before justice scarlet where the debt was proved and was given a $1000.00 fine.
CSA appealed the leniency of the sentence wanting a 6 mths jail sentence.
Have just finished the appeal hearing before the full bench, justice Ryan, another dark haired lady and a justice who said he was retiring.
The CSA was berated by the bench as my barrister Chris othen's arguments and summary submissions were excellent.
Have just received a notice of discontinuance filed by the CSA.
Just gutless. They knew they would lose and didn't want the law changed with the full courts decision.
Effectively my barristers arguments mean that no man can be jailed for a summary debt in Australia again. I just wish they would have gone to a decision effectively changing the law.
My submissions an summary arguments I would gladly share with those in need.
Sincerely
Neil Bennett
Unfortunately I was waiting for a solution but none came.
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8621991/child-support-outrage
the constitution and human rights state Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state
state meaning the state of australia.
Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms
you are being held in slavery, i would believe, by deliberately increasing a debt you cannot pay and by refusing to honor the right above
ask them in writing if they are intending to hold you in slavery as this seems to be what they are doing by not recognizing your rights. point out that this is a criminal event.
hold these people accountable for their actions they will try to say they enjoy zero liability this is not true.
if they step outside their csa limitations which is also governed by many other acts such as the bills of exchange and universal declaration of human rights, then they become liable for their actions.
i have found that the csa acts are also out of step with the declaration of human rights and constitution and i believe to this effect that they hold no authority, this corrupt defacto government can pass any act it wishes but they hold no power where it is out of step with superior legislation.
my circumstances are by no means horrible though i have seen these agents act completely illegally and criminally and i will not stand for this.
good luck
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By: Petie from NSW, Australia on November 22, 2012 @ 8:57 amJust posted a grateful comment on www.iamsograteful.org
Check out the site... (keep strong). **
They need you more than you may ever know - don't ever give up the fight to endure and stay alive, doing what you can with what you have. Enlist as much support as possible. Keep us posted!!
