Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!
Start writing a comment now...
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Read a lot of posts, and thought to write...
Anyways, I'm a father of 2 sons and THEY choose to live with me regardless for family court rulings. Anyhow, the role is reversed in my circumstance where the mother is the paying parent. Although she is behind in child support she pays what she can as regular as possible, so that I'm not disrupted financially. Yes, the is arrears and I'm looking into recovering the amount through SUPER, as I believe it's in both our best interest. This is because SUPER is not guaranteed and can change depending on economic climate.
Thr money is needed in most circumstances, and the paying parent is the best judge of that, given they know there ex partner circumstances.
Bottom line is... The children suffer from limited financial support and, I understand that my ex can be a cheeky bitch to deal with most of the time, however for sometime it's been always at the back of my mind that I deserved an apology from her for the breakdown of the relationship and If any of you are on the same page as me, this could be a good start to making it work for the kids. However, most paying parents are stuck in denial and continue to blame the other. From where I sit, it's obvious who's at fault and you guys stuck in denial will never understand the real issue at hand.
Ill leave it at that, without trying to offend anyone.
All the best and I hope I've help clarify a few things
Just to add......A company structure puts between a barrier between your partners assets and income and the CSA. The CSA then need to prove they are his assets alone, and not the companies. The CSA cannot access a companies bank account by issuing a 72a application as the company is its own legal entity. This can only be done by court order and only after the CSA has proved in court where the asset/money has come from. Need help email me.
Transfer the property into a family trust with the beneficiary being a company or someone not being your partner. Then CSA cant get their greedy little mitts on your partners money.
The same with his ABN income. Run it through a company with the directors being himself and a trusted other and any income cant be counted as his income.
Hope this helps I have been where you are.
We have a similar issue to Kent though the CSA made a decision that his income was not accurate and made a change of assessment decision that was based on his potential earnings for his line of work, even though that's nowhere near what he actually earns. So I top up the difference just so we can (sometimes) get his child, depending if it suits her or not. There's definitely a very big gap in the issuance of and validated spend of child support provided to the other parent who seems to have a much better lifestyle than we do...AND chooses to live with another person but won't marry them so they can then also claim the single mothers pension! It's certainly a contrived system that needs to change.
1. They do not take losses into account losses but include all profit. This means that if your business losses $30,000 one year, then makes a profit of $30,000 the next year for instance they only consider the $30,000 profit.
2. Profits from a profitable year are then projected forward with additions of say 4% or maybe more in CSA determinations. Loss years are not projected forward!
3. They add back depreciation (as profit) but will not take into account the initial cost of a depreciable item. This effectively means capital expenditure is treated by the CSA like profit (through the depreciation) even though it eventually depreciates to nothing.
4. They do not include certain expenditures at their whim.
At one stage after CSA made their determination regarding my business. After paying tax, minimum mortgage payments, and child support I would be left with $2 per for fortnight for my own living expenses. Basically the CSA drove me out of business and disadvantaged not only myself but my family as well because I became employed and was subsequently made redundant in my job. So we all lose through poor CSA decisions, including my ex and my children.
Sorry to be so discouraging but the CSA system is so unfair because all the cards are stacked in their favour. They have too much power and too little training in the effect that their decisions have. Cheers
She won't let him have 50/50 as it's about power, control, money and a myriad of pain/bitterness and psych/emot issues no doubt. Plus who left who, why and how is always in there.
For the custodial parent to get Centrelink they must make a CSA application, else they don't get the full payments. But they could do a private arrangement if they both got along, where he could reduce his payments and she could make up the shortfall through Centrelink.
It's in favour of the custodial parent when the paying parent is an employee on a high wage. Apart from employee deductions as you mentioned, you really need to be self employed/run a company/trust to get income down and in turn csa payments.
If property settlement has been done she should have no claim at all over his assets.
To minimise csa payments substantially and depending on where you're both at, you could always do a sea change, sell up, (maybe buy a new house), chuck the job in, go on the dole and do what you love. A few cents worth as requested.
I know this is a very touchy subject for both mums and dads. I am posting on here looking for some advice for my partner. He is an amazing Father to his 4 children. His arrangement is every second weekend and one night for dinner during the week – although he would absolutely love 50/50. He also takes them to school daily, and to all sports training and events on the weekend, and any call up he is there – no complaints at all.
When it comes to income he makes quite good money. Double that of what he earned at the time of separation – which is neither here nor there, until it comes to the amount of money he has to pay in child support. Again, he has no hesitation in paying for his children, but he does have a problem with paying for his ex’s lifestyle (ie, Audi, trips overseas, large home & renovations – which seem to be a timeless event) – yet – one child has an ongoing case of nits and this can’t seem to be taken care of?
While it is not my place to get involved – and I don’t. It does hurt me to see my partner work so hard and never seem to move. We live in a very standard 3 bed home, and live very basically, including my wage. He has a cheap investment property which has recently turned positive geared (very minimal), yet that increases her payment so takes away from having an “investment” property to try and better your life. We cannot afford to do amazing things with the children when they come over, yet we are always hearing of their restaurant ventures, and going here and there – I see the hurt in his eyes. For every $100 payrise – she gets $60. Now, my partner has never not wanted to pay for his children, and never ever wouldn’t pay for them, but cannot understand why no matter how well he does, she benefits more so than he does? She will not allow him to have them 50/50 yet he is the most incredible father you could ask for, and wants that more than anything (they live 5 minutes apart) – is it to do with money? After all she does get $25k+ off him per year + extras until just recently when he said enough is enough, no more extras. This is on top of her own wage and Centrelink payments + 4 x government child payments per year.
Basically – he is looking for a way to reduce his payments – NOT because he does not want to pay for his children, not at all, as $600 a week does more than that. He wants the children 50/50 but cannot, so he is looking for a way to reduce his payments so he can provide better quality of care and surroundings when the children come and stay with him, and so he is not supporting his ex’s excessive lifestyle anymore.
The ways we know of reducing are getting your employer to add to your super, and claiming as much as you can at tax time – however this is limited when you are employed with a company. He also does some side work on an abn. Would it be worth opening a family trust or this would not make any difference? Selling the investment property – would she benefit from half the profit?
Any support would be greatly appreciated, and again – this is not about not paying for the children. It is simply a case of when is enough enough.
Thank you in advance
At the last election how many people voted for the NON Custodial Parents Party to force change. Most people affected by the CSA are men however do we protest? No we allow this process to carry on. Telling our stories to have people feel sorry for us is not going to work unless we get out there and force change to this system that benefits no one other than the person receiving money.
Start writing, lets get out there and let it be know that a great deal of people do not approve of the way the CSA works. Force change
When I poured out my heart to the CSA representative one day about the pain I have endured by not being allowed to see my daughter she was crying with me. She went on to say "Yane i'm sorry i'm just reading a script and must ask you to pay child support."
This outlined that empathy means little to an agency like CSA. I am so disappointed that my daughter's well-being is not being considered by anyone except for myself and what's worse is that i'm the only powerless one here.
Best of luck with the Minister and hopefully change is made sooner rather then later
you raise an interesting point. The fact that money takes priority of access to your children. CSA will eventually garnish your wages or freeze your bank account. My next tack is to highlight to the Minister that CSA are bullying the non-custodial parents and see what response that gets.
Good luck.
All my correspondence lists my CSA victim number as I am not their bloody customer.
Please ask someone next time they ring you to verify for yourself and send your concerns to their complaints department or channel them via us at familymattersaustralia@gmail.com
Basically, they are telling me that money is more important then my daughter and I having a relationship. I continue to refuse paying child support as this is the only way that I can get to her. Despite how wrong it may seem, I believe my ex-wife not letting me see my daughter is much much worse.
Hi Brad,
I refer to the email from the mother's lawyer, Michael Dawson.
Unfortunately, the mother does not wish to proceed with ADR conferencing. We cannot force her to do so.
You can take her to court but in view of the age of the child, Legal Aid will not grant you an ext of aid for court proceedings. You will have to act in person.
I wish I could have been of more assistance but when the child is 15, he can vote with his feet. Do not lose heart. I have seen many of such cases. He may still come back to you when he is older. Right now he is a typical teenager and friends are more important.
Regards,
Mei
... YES but fathers need their sons and sons need their fathers ... where are my human rights?? how can she get away with this with full gov. support???
Hear me out...you have to work backwards on this...you're right that the CSA only do what the government tell them but the government aren't being exposed to the issues via a single channel to know there's a problem to even begin the reforms. The plan has to be well laid out with a common goal/s with everyone driving the same messages to evoke a response. The pretence of what I stand for is I know there are parents out there hurting, exhausted and fatigued by the system and the damage it does to their families. Without a challenge to the status quo nothing changes. I referenced Michael Fox in an earlier post. Now we all know what the reasons really were that day but the media made it about a traffic hazard. One voice, standing alone. Never to be heard of again. How do we change that? We bring people together who have the same issues and raise a bigger more impactful voice to get attention to explain why the laws need to be changed. Hope that explains more about what I'd like to see happen for the benefit of our kids futures.
Initially I hope to set up the site to explore what sort of numbers we can get. If the numbers are there, I will set a date for the marches. I am hoping to set it up in about 30 days. I would appreciate any help or suggestions about how the site should be structured.
We need to become visible as one.
I have been sent a bill for 17 000, then 14 000, then 5 000 and no correspondence explaining where the bill comes from. Local members and ministers have to be an outlet. When CSA get a letter from your minister they have 6 weeks to respond. Write away often and it doesn't matter if it's detailed or just a note, drive the mongrels crazy.
March? yes please!
Freedom of Information request to CSA. Of the people paying child support, 92% are male.
Must be 10's of thousands and maybe 100's. If all say no, and all march in protest together they will have to listen and change the laws to a fairer system. This is my aim.
He who bang head with child support agency end up with sore head.
He who write letters to Ministers/Senators end up with sore fingers
He who use lawyers end up with sore pockets.
He who joins together give sore bum to Ex partner/Ministers and CSA
Don't just stand around. They don't care about individuals whinging. Join together and start protesting in numbers. That way the politicians will have to listen and act. This shouldn't only happen in Australia. Those living in other countries who are reading this should start to organise themselves to. It takes everyone to get involved.
If there are 10,000 parents paying child support what would happen if everyone stopped paying? There would be 10,000 parents clogging up courts and united, marching through the streets saying NO to authoritarian rule in Australia - the lucky country! Then you can use the money for your kids wisely to benefit them the most and live in a freer country ruled by the people and not dictators. WIN-WIN.
However, there are a few problems with this plan. Many men can't unite unless it's at the Melbourne Cup races or TAB. Some parents must be forced to pay for their kids, else the kids wouldn't get a zack. Some have to be told what to do cos usually that's why they have a job in the first place. Usually it can be a few that ruin it for the whole.
There are other remedies to side-step child support payments to the CSA but it takes commitment and will power, but unfortunately most people have been taking it up the tail pipe for so long now that it's become habit to do as you're told. Our rights and will to unite and fight for them dwindle daily, lost somewhere in the materialism that surrounds us and the illusion that all is good.
Normally, no-one has a right to take anything from you Peter unless you consent to give it away. However, once the state is called in to act for your ex and kids, it then becomes a matter of competing rights and who has the most power and on what level. When the majority submit to bad rules and conditions, eventually it becomes enshrined in law. Now that's a problem for us all!
In the frustrating and demeaning environment we are expected to operate in, a few have indicated. Talk to your local member (MLA) etc. It is informative to me to check out the seperation of powers enshrined in our constitution....as Wiki says it:
"The doctrine of the separation of powers in Australia divides the institutions of government into three branches: legislative, executive and judicial. The legislature makes the laws; the executive put the laws into operation; and the judiciary interprets the laws" So understanding that; yes the pollies are the ones we need to convince too change the laws. But, they are a bunch of self interested (how many votes can I get?) so I don't fancy your chances. No I have decided that if this is what democracy offers me it is time to leave it to fester and mental health and Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS)- let it run its course. Take care of yourself - nothing else matters! This cuntry is run by toxics and softcocks...........let em fester by themeselves. Kids...when they grow up tell them the truth. This advice is offered after three years of struggle with 'the system'. Good luck!
what a heartless bunch of losers in the CSA. Write to your local member, then state member, then federal minister. This is ridiculous. CSA seems to be a bunch of cowboys without a sheriff. I hope your health improves but stress never helps.
Ron
Last year I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had a radical prostatectomy in November 2012. In February 2013, I was made redundant and went on Newstart allowance at the start of March 3013. I informed CSA of this and they reduced my liability to the minimum plus $100 per month (due to past medical and dental expenses for the children). I turned 60 in October 2013 and my main asset is a modest home which still has a $170,000 mortgage on it. In order not to renege on my CSA payments I borrowed additional funds against my home to pay CSA and cover the loan interest (by paying back into loan).
My ex-wife applied to CSA Change of Assessment (CoA) to try to increase my payments to her. Initially CoA said that they were going to increase my CSA payments and that I was to borrow more money from my home loan to meet these further obligations and I was to recover this from my super when I retire. After much distress they eventually reversed this decision.
This year I required further minor surgery and also required lens replacements due to cataracts and failing vision. As I could not afford this surgery I obtained $10,000 from my super to cover the cost of the surgery, which was carried out in May 2013. The Senior Case Officer (SCO) was aware of this additional sum from my super to pay for my surgery when he made his final decision not to increase my CSA payments on 23 August this year.
Yesterday I received a letter from CSA to say that because I had not declared the additional income (which resulted from the withdrawal of $10,000 from my super and because I was only 59 at the time the taxable portion of this was added to my taxable income) they had intercepted my tax return and paid an additional amount of $768.87 to my ex-wife and fined me $77. I immediately rang the CSA to explain the circumstances and they removed the fine, however the $768.87 they had paid to my ex-wife stands because the legislation says the amount that I obtained from my super is still considered income for tax purposes even though it was a ‘capital’ amount from my super to pay for my surgery. I was also told that it was unlikely that I could have that reversed because the amount has already been paid to my ex-wife and they would not want to leave her with a debt to repay as a result. It blows me away that this decision has been made and acted on without reference to me; in conflict with a decision previously made by a SCO; and it can’t be reversed because my ex may be disadvantaged. Hey, what about me! It is like being charged with an offence, the court case is held and the decision taken and acted upon without consulting at any time with the person being charged or even allowing them to know that something is happening.
The only income I was receiving was Newstart Allowance and I had only accessed my super due to hardship, to pay for some essential surgery. I find the powers of the CSA unbelievable, out of hand, totally out of touch with reality; as well as being unjust and unfair to the extreme.
The CSA formula Assessment is based ENTIRELY on the income you HAVE to declare to the ATO. Oh yes they can make up whatever figure they want and garnish you. The wise move if you have accrued LSL/pension/Golden handshake etc etc it to have it paid out over several tax years or head below the tax free threshold. WRT pension (Ron) if you pay yourself less than the tax free threshhold (22K PA) CSA have a far less corrosive formula that comes into effect. Meaning you might still be able to live, although frugally. Basically in all this you have to make yourself a smaller target, if you know what i mean. Living off crumbs until you come out the other side. Currently I am planning to become a smaller target but it will take me several years to achieve. Good luck gents!
It seems it's heading this way alright Neil. Perhaps at birth along with the blood tests etc will we see a DNA result. Maybe even before the child's born, so the real biological father can be tracked down. Gee that might wake up a few men and women. Or should us men be doing something different?
Trying to do what you thought was right and honourable serving your country and now you're getting treated like a low life criminal but yet the CSA (in this instance) are the one's who are stealing from you via your bank account and your respect. It's an absolute disgrace what they are doing, especially to an ex-digger.
Can you have your army pension paid into a trust?
The CSA are usurping authority over you the hu-man, depriving you of natural rights and power under some multi fascist agenda of dictatorial control. The only solution against a loss of freedom is resistance, non-compliance, a strong network, the numbers and a united front. This is just the start, more is coming.
Also checkout 10 Ways YOU Can Fight Fascism Around the World.
http://www.brainsturbator.com/articles/10_ways_you_can_fight_fascism_around_the_world/