Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!
Start writing a comment now...
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Hahahaha ha
All talk and no balls...it's time for ACTION.
Lets not make the same mistake as South Africa and enter into a power sharing arrangement.
When the heart is in the right place, the children WILL have a place they call home.
I agree, nothing from the likes of Family Matters or other like agencies has achieved anything to date ! Fathers and children have lost their lives !
"CIVIL DISOBEDIECE" is the answer !
But how do we get all Australian Fathers together to march and protest and bring the Country to a peaceful stand still ??
ACTION is required when words fail ! words are cheap actions are louder !!!
Yes, we need a revolution, but a revolution of government.
America was founded by their FOUR fathers and Australia needs to be founded by MANY MORE fathers.
Please...don't give in to the temptation that family matters offers and stand firm on the issue that the CROWN has had it's last chance.
I'm willing to put my hand up and lead the way...
I understand that with every change a bullet to the head is required to seal the deal, as history has proved on countless occasions.
I'm not afraid to die for what I believe in.
I've been told I'm an all or nothing kind of guy...hahahahaha
Thanks
Unfortunately to get equality, you need the assistance of women who understand your situation so your message is conveyed without prejudice as chest bearing exercise. I implore all of you to consider "manning up" so we can bring the message to the media-it's a common story for a lot of people but we need your case information to demonstrate the depth of the problems that CSA create. Write to us and we will begin the revolution on a broader scale!
The days of violence and use of force to bring about change is not the answer.
If these methods are used the system will be no different to the current system.
Understanding and reasoning must be the key element of a new system.
Possibly read about Marxism.
perhaps just a big bug tgat gets thr MSM attention to our cause? Hack channel 10?
Ghandi did it in India for different reasons, Mandela did it, "I have a dream" that one day men will be equal Martin Luther King. Well I have a dream if only us Australian men could get our shit organised "Fathers to be recognised, and cherished in our childrens lives ! "civil disobedience" is the answer if only men could get organised !
Yes the system sucks for sure. SOmetimes I think of my Father and Grand Father. If they knew the way us I am treated now (CSA Family Law Courts) they would have had a serious time justifying the war effort.
Seriously our adversary is armed to the teeth with resources well beyond our own. Everyone takes their own path (or life).
I have chosen to leave the system to 'fester'. I am in the fourth year of a custodial sentence for being an honest and ethical man. This will be my last 'planned' year with them.
At every turn my X pokes me in the eye with a stick. She has tremendous authority and is riven with negative emotions. The system supports her very well as I do (undre duress).
Another mate (Mauled by CSA too) a little older than me was wise in saying. "The secondary school curriculum should include a mandatory course for all Males. The course would include - familiarity with The Marriage Act the power of the CSA/FAmilt Law Courts, What is a Defacto relationship. How assets are split upon seperation etc etc."
I am sorry guys, but the system has no time for you. You will be required to 'step up' if there is a war on. Otherwise you are apart from your wallet - no use to them.
Cheers
It's time to take action in all possible means to create a situation to force a change !
Stand up you gutless bastards - its time
Once a parent gets residence at a final hearing, the race is pretty well over for other parent as far as legals, at least until they walk with their feet, as NMB said. If your daughter really has it bad with her mum & she wants to live with you, the best thing is to empower her to use rational thinking and her emotive force to get what she wants and is best for her. When your daughter is mature enough to influence whoever it may concern, your job maybe to facilitate proper independent representation and support giving her a proper voice.
It hurts like hell for parents with little or no contact but we must ensure our kids welfare comes first. Kids are strong and can endure, as long as they know Dad loves and cares about them, and that they won't be forgotten. They will remember what you put in and before you know it they will be on your door step, causing chaos and problems like many teenagers.
Also, while contravention hearings are on foot, applications for residence/contact or specific issues wont be heard by the court. Sometimes its best to withdraw them and pursue contact issues. Contempt matters don't always win alot of favour.
Remember mums can be almost the worst and neglectful creatures on earth, yes incl. being a druggie, yet in the eyes of the FC they will keep the kids under the guise of being helped and getting support etc. Bad effects from the relationship and so on; they have ample defenses. There are bigger reasons for this as well. In simple, the system is plain useless against mums and that's the way it is...period!
Whilst its hard to do, be grateful for the small things and all the things you get for free. Perhaps do as Monty Python said and "always look on the bright side of life", couldn't resist...
Can you tell us more about this grandmother beating up on your daughter, this doesn't sound good?
Separation/divorce is a time of enormous growth so hang in there Monty, yo and your daughter will benefit on the other side of the sausage machine. You both have lots of love and time to share...patience and tolerance are wonderful virtues.
Remember, it always gets darkest before dawn.
However when a mother doesn't abide by Court Orders then the Court does nothing !! BUT if a Father doesn't do per Court Orders then all hell breaks loose from the Court and the Father looses time with his child !!
Too afraid to loose any of the time with my daughter ! Its not enough as it is ! I just recently made application "initiating application" seeking change in custody ! The Judge said I had to refer to the Rice & Asplund Rule as to significant change has occurred.
(1) Daughters grandmother beat her up;
(2) Daughters mother enrolled her at school under he name instead of daughters legal name;
(3) Court Orders don't work as per 20 contraventions by Ex;
(4) Ex failing to complete random drug tests;
(5) Ex failing to allow Skype contact;
(6) There were 13 causes in total.
The Court disallowed my application ! whilst in possession of a further contravention application filed by myself !
The concept of the childs best interests is "as long as there is a loving, caring father on the scene the childs best interests are with the mother ! Fathers are not recognised at all. There is neither "Natural Justice" that the Court will consider when the child is demanding to live with the father as per there wishes ! These Judges and Court are not qualified experts yet they ignore the reports and wishes of Court appointed experts and do there own thing !
They are not worth the paper they are written on.
As for state police...it is not in their jurisdiction to get involved in a Family Court Matter.
Sure they have an obligation for warfare and could possibly THREATEN you with All the bullshit under the sun..
CALL THEIR BLUFF!!!...because they cannot touch you or your child.
As for DHS....STOP being so bloody honest.
It's the LIES that they only listen too.
Finally, Get a hold of your EMOTIONS and use your BRAIN.
NMB...thx 4 the quote.😉
"It's not that the truth hurts...it's the LIES you have BELIEVED for such a long time, THAT HURTS."
-me 😀😀😀
GOD SPEED
Once you get that time with her .....what SHE does YOU cant get into trouble over....she is 9? years old. You are not responsible if you cant find her because she runs away the morning of her flight. If she happens to run away the morning of her flight call the police and report her missing.....shit will hit the fan....police will look for her.... she misses her flight .....she turns up on her bike at a trusted friends or families place in tears saying she doesn't want to go home to her mother and wants to stay with her dad .....police will walk away..... you don't get into trouble and the courts WILL take notice......
Its a shit fight but kids vote with their feet
Firstly, I only see my daughter every school holidays and I have to meet all costs from Adelaide to Perth 100% as Ex was given relocation ! I also get Skype twice per week since relocation 2011 but I am very very luck when I get it as Ex will not let daughter use house phone or computer. My daughter and I hae gone 6 months with no Skype and ive taken Ex back to Court on numerous occasions, but the Court smacks he on the hand - 20 findings against Ex of contravention of Court Orders so far. I asked the Court for more Skype contact and the Judge said "I cant get the mother to follow Court orders now, so how do you think I can enforce more Skype contact" - can you believe this ! Christmas day 2013 Ex does a Police welfare check as she didn't get a Skype call Christmas day that she wasn't entitled to by Court Orders that day ! She made a false Police report, I complained to the Police that it is an offense to make a false Police report but they will do nothing (useless bastards) ! It is so hard putting daughter back on the plane to leave Perth when she starts crying saying please don't make me go back ! If I dint put her on the plane the Court would take away the little time that we have together ! Relocation is nothing more than "legalised kidnapping" !
I don't see there being any changes or fathers being recognised as being important in our kids life until as Australian men we stand up and do something drastic about it !
Like someone else said on this forum if you cant win fair ....cheat.
There is no fairness in Family Law
I feel for you and hope you get what you hope for.
What you need to do is get some access to your daughter. Once she is with you she is able to "run away" to your parents, a friend, as long as SHE has made that decision....once the police have been called to your door and you have been accused of kidnapping she tells them that she wants to stay with you.....the police will do nothing....case closed. then you go to court again and because your daughter has run away you will be granted custody....but that doesn't stop your fight with the CSA.
This was my experience with my then 9 year old son....he is 25 now
Kicked Ex out 2006 due to her drug addiction and family supplying drugs to adults and kids ! Daughter born Oct 2005.
Ex wouldn't let me see daughter from day one, so started legal action. ICL said to Court "custody to Father" and ex supervised contact, then expert report said "child would be mediocre at best with a poor future with ex" but "would excel with the father". Judge ignored experts and ICL.
Ex subsequently makes false allegations of sexual abuse by me to my daughter and community.
Later found out Ex had hooked up with a guy that had his 4 children removed and made Ward of the State on the basis of drug addiction, domestic violence and sexual abuse. This guy was registered with Department of Child Protection.
I was granted an 18 year VRO for the protection of my daughter against this monster. 2010 same guy threatens to kill my daughter and makes admissions of SA ! and sentenced to 15 months jail.
I get 66 days a year to see my daughter at 100% my costs from another state as she was allowed to relocate.
I broke down in 2007 and lost my companies, interest all income and assets fighting to see my little girl. CSA say I have an outstanding a/c of $36,000 whilst being on centrelink the whole time and not able to work, CSA will not accept medical doctors certificates nor psy reports and placed DPO on me.
My daughter begs me "can I live with you daddy" and all I can say is sorry they wont let you !
We "Australian Men" are pathetic ! We don't march on Parliament we don't do anything ! What if a large majority of men in Australia simply didn't go to work (strike) ! This Fu-k Country would shut down ! But no what do we do ? - sit back have another beer and cry it ! We are our own worst enemy !!
TO: JAN SHUARD - COMMISSIONER CORRECTIONS VICTORIA, EDWARD O'DONOHUE - MINISTER FOR CORRECTIONS (VICTORIA), ROBERT CLARK - STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL (VICTORIA)
For more info & link to sign petition: http://www.f4joz.com/news/newspage.php?yr=14&id=70
Dieu et mon droit
(God and my right)
and the motto of the Order of the Garter:
Honi soit qui mal y pense
('Evil to him who evil thinks')
I don't think it's a coincidence that before your DPO we were discussing MORALS...
Why not combine the two in a letter to the obardsmen and federal MP discussing the violation to NATURAL LAW.
Quoting..."Dieu et mon, Honi soit qui mal y pense"
Sometimes from my experience people act with the authority of God and need to be reminded that their actions will be judged by God based on NATURAL LAW.
I like to think outside the square and turn the table on those that misuse government authority, reminding them of a higher order that cannot be misused or manipulated.
Therefore allowing THEM to feel FEAR based on their actions.
Nothing to lose giving this a shot and you might be surprised.
ALL THE BEST!!!
👍👍👍
Regardless what side of the fence, the law has been manipulated and served to the people based on FEAR.
I have always been one to think that this is how government holds onto power.
I understand most people are FEARFUL of losing hard earned money, but what value has this money if it was earnt though the blood, sweat and tears of another.
Sure, everything's great when you are part of the illusion, but the few that choose that they want to persue what they FEEL is right, get shot down...dragged through hell and back only to do it again.
The governments main weapon against CIVILIANS is a mental roller coaster to silence the individuals that go against the grain. Leaving the individual to go seek mental help, hang in there and perserverence will prevail.
Feel free to vent, rant, I for one don't mind...
You have 159% of my support and you will be in my thoughts.
TAKE CARE!!!
They are relentless....im tired of all of this.
its been 17 years.
Divorced 1996 with a self employed income of between 15k and 25k per year....even before I was divorced.
Deemed to earn for the purpose of CSA payments of between 50k and 100k depending on what figures they have pulled out of the air at the time.
2005 CSA v NMB Local court Family Matters St James Centre Sydney....no money ....no representation.... CSA wins
2009 2 days in Parramatta Federal Magistrates Court
Given a Bond with time to pay.....no money no representation CSA wins. As I know now the judge had no jurisdiction to hear this case....NB: LOCAL COUURT FAMILY MATTERS ....heard in the FEDRAL COURT FAMILY MATTERS.
2011 2 days in Feburary and in 1 day March FEDERAL MAGISTRATES COURT Sydney
CSA started another separate action for I think 3-4k which I asked to be joined to the existing case from Parramatta which was done ....Bond discipline hearing was thrown out because it was not brought back to court within time limits....a win of sorts....CSA wanted 6 mths custodial sentence....ended up with a 1k fine.
August 2011 ...1 day in the 2011 FEDRAL MAGISTRATES COURT SYDNEY..CSA appeals the fine.
April 2013 1 day in FMC Sydney..... Represented by a barrister..... Appeal heard before the full bench....CSA wants 6 months custodial sentence.
Full Bench makes it clear that the appeal will fail on 3 grounds
1. No jurisdiction to hear it
2. The original fine was based in law
3. that the LOCAL COURT FAMILY MATTERS does not have at its disposal custodial sentences.
29th April CSA files a NOTICE OF DISCONTINUANCE
I win.... costs awarded to me.....the Federal custodial laws are not changed.
20th Feburary 2014 CSA informs me they have issued a Departure Prohibition Order....
Just relentless....im really struggling with this. they have had 17 years to find all they can about me and come up empty....WHY .....because there IS nothing to find. It doesn't just effect me but my wife. After raising a son that is not hers and her own son and helping to raise 3 daughters that aren't hers she deserves to be able to live a life with me without us having to constantly be worrying about what the CSA is going to do to us next.
The CSA had the opportunity to impose the DPO on me at the same time all of this started in 2005 and we could have heard it all before all the judges all the way to the Full Bench....why drag it out.
If these people ( CSA workers ) lived under a Nazi riegeme they would have no worries about feeding us into the gas chambers. They have no social conscience....The excuse is "I was told to do it by my boss" "Its the law" etc etc....
Sorry all I'm ranting because I don't know how this will end .....again
Thanks Bewitched ....I have read that and there are some things I have copied and pasted from that for my solicitor
http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/files/investigation_2009_08.pdf
Maybe your wife should sue them as well for causing her harm and discrimination. Perhaps a chat with a reporter with an angle as to how CSA is causing harm to others incl 92 yo. Show no mercy, the CSA is a bastard organisation that doesn't help mums, dads or kids despite what many think. It's just an excuse for business, control and force.
I hear you loud and clear.
I will look into it.
Just a thought...isn't there something like permission to leave?
Fear was worrying if I was going to jail....This is just plain annoying and inconvenient. I have tickets to italy in May. ...My wife's auntie is 92 and she's going over to see her
I think it's a tactic they uses to put FEAR into you to pay a debt.
Have you thought of taking out an IVO against the CSA on the grounds of psychological threats and intimidating behaviour.
I once went to court to take out an IVO against a police officer.
Might sound crazy, but sometimes crazy is all they understand.
Of course they can.
My argument is going to be a long the lines of double jeopardy.
I.E. They put me before the full bench of the family court and tried to put me in a real jail and failed.....all paperwork will be supplied.....now they have effectively jailed me in my own country. Let's run this before the courts and see how that floats. This is the last weapon they have to use against me
The Registrar can make a DPO where all of four specified conditions are satisfied (section 72D). These conditions are:
-the relevant person has a child support liability;
-the relevant person has not made satisfactory arrangements to wholly discharge the liability;
-the Registrar is satisfied that the person has persistently -and without reasonable grounds failed to pay child support debts (as distinct from spousal maintenance debts);
-the Registrar believes it is desirable to make such an order to ensure that the person does not leave Australia without wholly discharging the liability or making satisfactory arrangements to do so.
http://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/publications-and-resources/child-support-guide/part-5/5-2-11
This below story maybe a handy loophole for anyone overseas wanting to come and permanently reside in Australia yet can't get a visa. LOL
A father of four who left the UK without establishing a child support system was tracked down here and forced to pay regularly by the local Child Support Agency. Now an Australian citizen but jobless, he is locked in Oz because the CSA has imposed an administrative order preventing his departure.
http://www.cla.asn.au/News/child-support-locked-in-australia/
Anybody out there with experience
I've just signed the following petition "Minister for Human Services: Implement a Royal Commission into the Child Support Agency" and wanted to see if you could help by adding your name.
Our goal is to reach 1,000 signatures and we need more support. You can read more and sign the petition here:
https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/minister-for-human-services-implement-a-royal-commission-into-the-child-support-agency?recruiter=62591280
I just feel I should share my experience with fathers, to let them know that it is possible.
Maybe, women need to pull up their socks and focus on the family or maybe men just need to grow up, MENTALLY.
Maybe, I just wanna warn the other fishes that IT'S A TRAP.
"Knowing that there's a trap, is the best way in avoiding one"
-Frank Herbert's, Dune
I'm sure I said my argument is a MORAL ONE and by throwing in CHRISTIAN BELIEF is a sure way to gauge where a person is MORALLY.
First and foremost, I'm a MATHEMATICIAN.
Lol...I don't even got to CHURCH.
It's obvious that we are not on the same page.
Any further comments I make will prob upset you.
GOOD LUCK
👍👍👍
I could go into detail on how to win in the Family Court.
But, I'm not one to follow the LAW, so any advice would go against LEGAL advice.
The reason you lost in the family court is because you FOLLOWED the court procedure.
I, too lost in the courts...but I won in REALITY.
There's a saying...if you can't win by the rules, then cheat.
Bit like this forum...lol
And I agree with you 159% that its not fair.
Only reason it's not fair, is because YOU were being fair.
Thanks for putting up with me everyone.
👍👍👍
you are obviously not in the situation mosat of us talk about here. CSA create debts that aren't real by claiming that the non-custodial parent earns more than they do. My case, for example, is that CSA continue to accrue a debt in m,y name for $500 a week based on my previous income. I moved interstate to be near the Kids and this has disadvanteged my earning capacity. If I was stupid enough not to fight CSA I would simply pay the 17 000 of accrued debt. Keep your stupid Christian morality comments to yourself, all of us do the best we can for our kids. By minimising payments to CSA the non custodial parent has more money to spend how they choose on their kids. The custodial parent is well catered for by Centrelink etc and having paid a fortune in taxes over a long period of time I don't mind that my kids benefit from the taxpayer.
"Basically, a father is more important than a mother in a kids-teens-adults life."
I agree...the mother does more when they are younger 0-10 but as the kids get older 10-20.. a good father is the rock/stability kids learn self discipline and self respect from....and a safe place to return to when in trouble in my experience.
This applies to boys as well as girls.....differently but the same.
Lol...the results are overwhelming.
There are articles from studies done in the USA, UK AND CANADA.
What you'll find interesting is the study done on mice.
There are PYSICAL development problems in the brain and BEHAVIOURAL problems in the MAJORITY. Daughters are impacted more than Sons.
Just at a quick glance, the results are like I've said how important a father is in a child's life, compared to motherless children.
Sure, that's my OPINION and research supports my view.
Going back to the question...
Why help fathers avoid/minimise CSA repayment?
One word...MORALS.
Last time I checked AUSTRALIA is still considered a CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.
But I'm happy to reply more tomorrow.
Firstly...Joe,
Your in a bit of a pickle...if the child's yours.
However...have you though of taking civil action against her for withholding that information...and the child.
Could be a good way to settle any child support.😀👍😀
Every father has a right to know at birth, unless the father is unknown on the birth certificate. So... did she LIE on a legal document having full knowledge that you were the father. There's a crime here... Perjury perhaps???
Finally...NMB
LOL...as I take a deep breath.
It's all fiction that the children have to stay with the mother.
As for court...better to battle it out WITHOUT a lawyer these days as the family court REALLY has no way of enforcing court orders. usually a process of FEAR and INTIMIDATION.
Cost me $60 for filing and the ex paid over $10,000. I ended up walking out because its so full of shit the child's best interests...in the end the kids wanted to stay with me.
Basically, who ever has the child/ren for a year gains primary care.
Problem is ALL MEN are stupid during separation, as there emotions dictate their actions. Only realising they have lost the FAMILY and not that they've lost the KIDS.
Everyday I had to remind myself that my EX was dead to me, and I had to do my best to raise the kids. Emotionally, mentally I was a mess, but I pulled through because of the kids. I prayed everyday, morning and night and it was releaving and calming. When speaking to MEN'S SUPPORT, they try to get you ANGRY and FRUSTRATED and weren't much help as what I felt was DISAPPOINTMENT and DESPAIR.
When attending a CHURCH, they didn't help as they manipulate your situation to suite their own need.
I guess what I'm saying is...set the trend that fathers gain primary care and let the WOMEN pay the support.
Let CSA sort out their own policies, as nothing will ever change as long as MEN are the target.
I remember a study done with kids that had a father in their life and those that didn't. Basically, a father is more important than a mother in a kids-teens-adults life.
Sorry, I gotta find the study...
To answer your questions
"Why help people avoid/minimise CSA payments?
When I believe the solution is better to help fathers gain custody of their children, during separation. As long as they have the child's best interest."
1. If the system was fair to both sides you wouldn't hear me complain....CSA payment as well as custodial/contact orders for both parents.....but it's not!!
2. When I went through the system I had a snow balls chance in hell of getting custody of my kids. ...no matter how bad she treated them or how great a father I was. My family report actually recommended the 2 youngest live with me. The judge not only ignored the domestic violence, but also the family report. The sad thing is that my.... at the time 9 year old son had to run away 3 times from his mother before the courts would even consider me getting custody
Bottom line is I can't stand unfairness and injustice. This is what motivates me.
