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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Me? Divorced, was self-employed, now working full time. Two daughters, 9 & 11. I am assessed on my capacity to earn, which severely disadvantages me yet my ex works part time and believes she has a god-given right to be supported y me. Won't negotiate. Eg; CSA froze my personal bank account last Friday. Took $1,000 which was ear-marked to pay my mortgage and expenses. The ex took the money but then told me that if I wanted my youngest to attend camp in December, I had to pay $150 more! This is the type lunatic I am dealing with. The CSA will not lay a glove on her or hold her to account for not trying to get full time work - of any sort. Furious? Frustrated? Ready to explode? That's me. So, I was to pick up my kids in two hours without a cent to my name. Now that's stress!
Why does the CSA refer to my capacity to earn and not hers? Just because I had a demonstrated capacity AFTER the CSA was engaged, and she had a demonstrated capacity BEFORE the CSA was engaged. That is not justifiable and is fundamentally unfair.Our law-makers are responsible for this legislative tripe! And these are supposed to be among the best minds in the country!
I got more, but is there any way to get through to these pricks?
How do I say... I will not be persuaded to participate or even react to another persons view.
You remind me of myself prob about a year ago wif the indoctrination and doom and gloom talk.
Yes, the simple truths that exist are rarly taught or even believed.
Such as the evolution theory or the psychology of chemical reactions that dictate our very being...
It's not the outside world that dictates who we are, but our own inner person.
Btw...God does exist...in a book and in a brain. See just proved it.
As for the masses, the multi generational programming has indoctrinated and distracted people so deep, its no wonder so many remain asleep and dead or is it us, are we the belligerent and naive fools? The good cells in the world's immunity system that gets taken out as the cancer spreads.
I think we have lost our way and forgotten how to love god and our neighbour, reaping only being conquered from the division we have sown.
What are the answers my friends???
Will many more dark days have to come before the crowd leaves the sports stadium, awaking from the entrenched denial they are in? Perhaps we're at the wrong game too Anthony, maybe we should be on an adventure free of responsibility and duty?
It seems you are hijacking my ideology...
Please stop confusing the masses with your use of the word PROVE and LAW.
Unless you have some experience to share with us.
Then to me you are a fool and only the foolish will believe you.
Keeping them trapped in a loop of anger and denial.
Over come ppls... Adversity is the best achievement anyone can claim in this life.
Ps. Just checking I have dotted my i's and crossed my t's because I'm expecting a reaction to this post.
First, are you the living or the dead?
As a living, breathing, flesh and free flowing blood soul, is it not wise to get the CSA or any govt institution to prove in law everything they demand from you? Onus probandi.
ie. Is the CSA lawful?
Can they provide hard evidence of the law that gives them power and jurisdiction over you?
Where does this head of power come from?
Is this head of power greater than your power?
Is God not the only power above you, as isn't God the only power that gives and taketh away your breath?
Hence, isn't it correct that no man/woman stands in between you and God?
Hence if yes, is it not true that no one has power over you unless you give your CONSENT?
It's very common practice that someone steps in for the weak and fights on their behalf.
This then creates a weaker society one that can be controlled by government and their agencies.
I believe and it's just my opinion that you should prove emotionally that you are weaker and so the have more sympathy for your case.
One last point...we are led to believe that it's survival of the fitest and our instincts get in the way in terms of fight or flight.
This may be true in the business world, however in the welfare world oppisite world theory applies...sorry it's my idea that you solve problems in an oppisite fashion because conventional methods keep you in the loop.
A quote...it's not meant to make sense.
With this in mind you will know the answer.
It's all psychology and chemical reaction that occur in the body.
Oh, what would I know...im just a mathematician.
And no I have a calculator you do my computer maths.
Focus on logical problem solving and apply oppisite world theory.
Hope that helps.
Would be good to see some positive posts where this forum has helped people...
As far as relief with the quantum of child support already paid, the below high court case may provide a remedy insofar as an Order. However, before going to the trouble of getting an Order, first make sure the mother has some assets to assist with the enforcement, else all maybe in vain.
"In the High Court case of Magill v Magill  HCA 51, a claim for damages brought by a man against the mother of a child on the basis that he had been misled about being the child’s biological father, the High Court held that false representations concerning an extra-marital sexual relationship or its consequences made by one spouse to another during the course of a marriage are not actionable in deceit. Nevertheless, the court found that a husband is entitled under the family law regime in Australia to seek an order for the repayment of any moneys wrongly paid for child support, or child maintenance, in reliance on such representations."
any help on this
The ONLY way LAWS will be made FAIRER is to PROVE existing LAWS DON'T WORK!!!
Leading to a CHANGE in the system...filtering to the CSA.
I believe the CSA is just an enforcement agency of the COURTS.
TO KILL A SNAKE YOU CHOP OF ITS HEAD.
Stop going after the tail...it will grow a new one back.
I am willing to HELP ALL FATHERS get their children BACKK.
JUST ASK ME
I believe ALL children should be with their Fathers.
The court system knows this and is running a business, after all.
ALL FATHERS should TAKE THE FAMILY LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS.
Meaning NOT acknowledging the COURT ORDERS and doing what's in THE CHILDREN'S BEST INTEREST.
I have FULL CARE OF MY 2 sons and did it like this.
Every time I go to family court I end up WALKING OUT.
You CANNOT BE CHARGED FOR KIDNAPPING YOUR OWN KIDS!!!
Grow some BALLS MEN and fight the BATTLE HEAD ON.
Please, STOP WINGING ABOUT MONEY...
The children ARE the asset.
if your self employed there exist a form with the ato where you can declare you will not lodge a return again for religious reasons or simply because you dont want to. these things have to exist as if they didnt it would be slavery there has to be a way out there also has to be a way to cease employers deducting,
if they actually read the income tax act doesnt allow this what they are following is a guide which is not lawful and even the phrase in the act that corresponds they are misreading, when you delve into the act.
i wont give up then i will free you all lol
for awhile i was winning with the csa however they've begun ignoring all "law" not just with me but their entire structure, for instance the non custodial parent now requires ( i believe it is ) 65% care of the child before the equality of 50/50 expense is warranted this is clearly a retarded standing made only to discriminate against fathers, ( forgive me if legislation has changed in the last few weeks,
however my reason for posting i believe is the answer, not so long ago i wrote to the csa asking for the definition of income along with some other relevant questions regarding their lawful standing, the response was along the lines of, you can expect transparent information though the letter ended with, we will not answer your questions??????????
upon further reading into the income tax act and thoughts turned towards the csa and their strange response, i have found that "ïncome" has no specific definition however it is defined by proxy. income is a term related to business activity and the definition of business relates to profit, now if one is to follow the definition of business in the income tax act this states that it does not include an employee. it does include an individual which is synonymous with natural person thought it states does not include an employee. income is profit gained off an-others back. many may find this difficult to follow but to tax ones labor falls under the definition of slavery, it is unlawful and the government knows this, this is why we have a self assessment regarding income tax, we are infact filing stating that we made a profit. ok without going further into this, relate this to the csa, it makes sense, our social security system payed for by other taxes supports our children we then add to this as responsible parents, the child support act relates to adjusted taxable income, income/profit this makes sense, it is set up to tax parents whom actually have businesses and make profits, i do not, i exchange my energy. this is why the csa will not answer this question they know the are scamming us all along with the ato. i havent filed for three years because of this, i am working on filing without declaring profit i believe i know how, i just need some time to get on top of this. because of this the csa now have created an income for me despite any evidence of such and despite the legislation not allowing this. read the acts people.
Might have to read into CONSTITUTIONAL LAW because you are saying that the very law they hide behind is illegal.
How could this be???
Maybe it's a case of the law makers know and won't challenge it because its part of the federal revenue, meaning their OWN back pocket.
I think your onto something, but by the time WE do realise the LAW will be changed.
From what I'm aware the current LAWS are being reviewed.
Just like any NEW LAWS they will be written to STRENGTHEN current CSA POWERS.
Maybe, it's TIME to test CURRENT CSA LAWS against CONSTITIONAL LAW BEFORE THEY GET AWAY.
Anyone got a SPARE $4-5 million dollars???
The employees within the structure are human.. only they are paid to be not so, as they will tell you over the phone they cannot bend the "rules" (guidelines?) to take into account your particular circumstances, especially anything related to the stress and damage being done to your mental and physical health. As I am writing this I actually feel physically sick, and have done for some weeks trying to get a fair go from the CSA operatives, straight away that indicates something very wrong here.. if it happens to me then many more of my Aussie brothers and sisters are also experiencing the same things to a lesser or higher degree.
lets get at them folks.
I have thought about what this will bring about, and how it may affect my life, but, someone has to do this and be willing to be crushed by the powers that be for confronting and exposing this for what it is, a totally UNFAIR and UNJUST system that needs to be reined in, I will put my hand up to be that focal point.(watch what happens to me!) Let’s get onto this now!. You will need to be patient as I need to organise separate, secure, contact formats and details for you all to be able to contact me and to send the information to me to assess and document so we can fix this.
One last thing.. anyone that will not contribute a fair amount to the upbringing of their children from the relationship, you need to have a damned good look at yourself, you brought them into this world and regardless of the relationship with the other parent YOUR children need you to contribute.
Right, lets get this show on the road. I can no longer sit and seethe in my helplessness. Lets turn this around folks. I need information! I need the details on the CSA as follows, time for detective work people, all info MUST be verified and documented, we are about to do what Wikileaks does.
I now believe the Aussie CSA is a front for something much bigger and sinister than we all currently know. The CSA IS a government body, all legal etc, but, they employ a COMPANY (consultancy?) to gather Child Support in other words, assess, gather enforce, bully, harass and destroy families and the individual, your “case officer” is not a judge or lawyer, they have no right to force this upon you, ask them next time you speak with them if they are a public servant or a contractor and see what the reaction is!. As you all know we are assessed on a formula, the formula ONLY looks at pre tax income (unjust, illogical and criminal in its stupidity) we are all allocated an allowance to live on within that formula, the figure is taken from the bureau of statistics that says it costs the AVERAGE Aussie this amount to live on for a year (Absolutely ridiculous and certainly doesn't apply to most of us!)so, we have two suppositions already with which are used to falsely assess our cases with that have no relevance to each and every single case currently being (mis)"managed" by the CSA.The power granted by legislation to the CSA is interpreted by the contractor to go for the maximum use of force to get the maximum "return" (which in turn gets them performance bonus’s) using a false and completely illegal methods against citizens of Australia, well, f@#k that for a joke!, no more!.. Let’s be reasonably smart about this.. I need facts about, the company, the account that the 4+ billion dollars currently held by the "organisation" whoever that is that gets invested in short term money markets and other high dividend, short term investments.. this is a HUGE money making scheme people and MUST be altered to be fair and just!. I need names, all the names in the CSA departments and the contractors that talk to you on the phone, everyone in any way linked to this evil little scheme.
We would love to have my husbands son live with us but his mother is so manipulative because she does not want to loose the money she is getting, how is this benefiting the children. CSA is so mixed up
(http://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2014/2014fca0035) re late payment fees may also be of benefit. Remember they are mostly defunct lawyers who work at CSA so they should know what you're on about. Plus for some commentary see http://www.mallesons.com/publications/marketAlerts/2014/Pages/Are-bank-fees-penalties-Paciocco-v-ANZ-.aspx
There is currently a Parliamnetary Inquiry into the Child Support Program, info available here http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House/Social_Policy_and_Legal_Affairs/Child_Support_Program
Have your say via the Online Questionnaire and hopefully you can provide some solutions they will listen to. Good they realise how crap the system is.
I had this last week, and I let fly and gave them a mouthful they wanted close to 3k a month, I'm now coughing up 34c in the dollar. As such they have me slated at just over 100k owing, of which mostly is penalties for late payments. I told them I'm fine paying child support but they can shove the late payments up their arses, and if they keep hounding me, I'll save 6mths cash somewhere, punch my boss and go on the dole. Before the bad parent brigade starts bleating, I gave my ex wife my home for the kids which she immediately sold for profit, and you wonder why people are bitter? Dene ring them back and start hounding them, do not stop until some kind of balance is made, they will only raid the bank if they have no way of obtaining cash, which happened to me when I was redundant, they froze my account and took ALL of my money, that I had to survive on. If you must take a second mortgage and pay them something to compromise, and as your wife is an accountant she should be able to come up with idea's to help preserve your net worth/assets. I was in the same boat as you, feeling like crap, bullied, harassed, pressured and demoralised. I simply chose to attack them back whilst at the same time thinking of ways to alleviate the financial horse-shit shower they are providing..and they did feed me the line of "do you know how much it costs to raise a child?" etc. So ring them back, and attack, keep ringing until the low level monkeys have no scripts they can read to you and pass you up their food chain to someone who knows what they are talking about, and can actually make decisions, good luck.
Your issue is that the alleged $1000 owing is because your redundancy payment was reasonable and made your year total the ssame or more that what you would have got had you not be put off.
You need to contact CSA to say e.g. $20k of my salary last year was redundancy and should not be counted as "normal income". Your year end total will reduce and the debt will be ZERO as in fact you have paind too much due to the fact you continued to pay when you didn't have to. Clearly your ex partner is evil pursuing this.
This exact situation happened with me and I won the protest. You just have to find someone at CSA who cares. Most likely a male. I kid you not..... find the right person and the debt will disappear. Greg
I did not gain employment until 17 Feb this year, so in that time from early September until the time I started working I was paying $304 per fortnight. In early July this year my present wife and I had a baby, and registered with myGov, and so I linked my child support account with this. At this time I learnt that I had all these emails which I had not been keeping up to date with. In Dec 2013 my daughter turned 13, so I was expected to pay extra from that point on. That information was included in one of the emails that I did not look at. In May 2014 the CSA sent me an email saying that unless I re-estimated my income before 30 June 2014, my assessment would be calculated on my previous tax assessment. That email was also unread by myself. I started work in Feb this year. Even when I started work I didn’t phone child support to tell them of my new estimation, I figured it would change when I did my tax return, so I kept on paying same amount per fortnight.
I rang CSA in July, a fortnight after my son was born, and I told them of my new estimation for this financial year. Recently, I received a phone call from CSA saying that my ex-wife has asked CSA to now take up collection and that I’m nearly $1000 in arrears. Can anything be done to take into account the money I paid while I was unemployed, or is it simply a case of me being ignorant and just copping it on the chin?
I don't know how many have experienced the circle of working overtime because you may need extra money to get your car fixed or a new hot water service ..or worse you need your car fixed a new hot water service and a microwave all in one hit.
It so happens my company thought i was averaging 6-10% of my pay in O/T each year so they gave me a pay rise which fixed my salary. Wonderful but it amounted to less than 1 hr pay per week. When my tax was done and the amount of child support was calculated it dumped my child support up by nearly $120 a month extra because of the OT. I rang CSA to say i can forward proof that my salary was less and I worked the O/T to buy new microwave as it is my only form of cooking, hot water service and have some serious work done on my car to get to work. They then said as all my OT wasn't greater than 10% of my salary they won't take it into account and will have to make do until the next financial year. Talk about taking a belting...
For a single guy paying for a 13 year old that he can't ever see its sole destroying at best. But I'm sure I'm over ally sensitive when I call the CSA in some glimmer of hope they may take a little sympathy from your side. But I'm afraid even the last time I called the response was...You have to understand the cost of raising the child...Hello I said my 13 yr old son is getting 29% of my take home. I'm sure I must be totally selfish in my lack of understanding in this matter.
I luv it when it always the partner of an ex gets involved only to find that the person they knew hasn't REALLY shown you their TRUE COULORS.
What I mean by this is time and time again I see that once you are in the SAME situation as the EX...ie, have 2 kids ect, THEN AND ONLY THEN will you understand.
So until then...BELIEVE what you want.
Sometimes step partners give endlessly and put up with alot, all to find that one day they're on the outer wondering where there life has gone. Other than that, follow your heart and intuition..
Would absolutely love your advice, support, feedback... whatever it is you might have.
So - I am the partner of the most devoted, loving, present and active father. He is currently going through the mediation process to have shared parenting of his daughters (5 & 11). His boys were never encouraged to come and see him after separation - needless to say his relationship with them has suffered and he only see's them when he drives to their house to collect them for school each morning. In April this year, my partner decided it was time for him to fight for what he felt was right for him and his children - a 50/50 split. His daughters absolutely adore him. He collects them for school each morning, takes them to their sporting activities and even coaches both of their teams. When their mother was contacted in regards to his decision in April, she took it upon herself to tell the 11yr old (who is highly sensitive at the best of times) that her father had gone to see someone to see them more. This resulted in her having a meltdown and not wanting to stay at her dads that week - which was allowed. They recently had their mediation appointment and the mother messaged him the day prior to inform him that the 11yr old had been going to counselling since February (2 months prior to finding out). He had no idea and still has no idea what she originally went for. The mother is now using this to the best of her ability to make the father feel bad for wanting shared parenting. Just last week she sat in a mediation room and told the mediator that she was all for 50/50 split but 3 days later she has sent him messages telling him that he is selfish for doing this, she has sobbed and sobbed and he is breaking her heart and spirit and that she will protect her until the day she dies. YET - when she is with her father she is happy, loving and actually cannot get enough of her father. She asks him to take her to extra sports training etc. The mother has told the father not to talk to the daughter about it that they will discuss it at counselling.
I am so confused and hurting for him. People say don't get involved but it's really hard not to. Sometimes I feel like maybe I am the problem. I show them love, do nice things with them, attend all their events and they on most occasions show me a great amount of love back. The 11yr old on the weekend was really REALLY rude to me and I felt like I couldn't say anything because I don't want to upset anyone at this point with all that's going on. The 11yr old is known for of acting things and being a little over dramatic - actually - very over dramatic at times. I feel like my partner is being manipulated by the mother and quite possibly played by the daughter too - not taking away from the fact that I know it would be terribly hard. Her life is not being effected in any other way - she is still participating at school, sport, friends and she is still happy at our place and has made no mention of it.
Sorry it's a bit all over the shop! Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I truly feel so lost amongst all of this. I have no idea what advice to give my partner or how to deal with it myself.
Under the current system, one parent can easily make a claim to CSA for more money but the parent doing the right thing can spend thousands in court just to see their own child. And the parents who choses not to work should have a minimum wage assessment placed on them, similar to the US (hey they do a lot of stupid things in the States but at least their system is starting to recognise that BOTH parents should work to support their children).
Once the kids are in school there is no excuse for parents not working, our welfare system makes it too easy.
Please be reminded that the online survey is a great way to provide your opinion of the CSA and how it treats us.
I found the survey provided enough blank screens for comments where I could further expand. For example, there was a Q on how I thought the kids were coping e.g. depression, anxiety etc etc. To which I responded a few Q later "I don't know the state of my kids because I am lucky if I c them 1 hr per week.
I was also able to mention Parental Alientation Syndrome (PAS). Which is an issue in my case.
So this is a great opportunity to tell the truth!
Whether it makes any difference well that's another question.
Please have your say. go to the link below and get your voice out there.
On 27 March 2014, the Minister for Social Services, the Hon Kevin Andrews MP, asked the Committee to inquire into and report on the Child Support Program.
The Committee will be holding hearings in many Australian cities, which will be open to the public.
I have sent letters to the minister for Human Services and have had a response that some action is being made to improve. while chances of changing the system are unlikely at least you will be one of the many to have a say. tell anyone you know who deals with this terrible system to get on and have a crack. takes 20min to complete, and as you all know something needs to happen. I emplore you to help me and the many like me and to more of an extent,, Yourself. good luck
I just wanted to say how heartfelt sorry I am for you and your partner. The whole system of child support is nothing short of a disgrace. The worse thing for me is that I do not understand how the Government stands back and lets it happen with the full knowledge that payers are suffering in every way. They know the hardships the payers are feeling and the depression it is causing. It doesn't just stop at the payer, it is his/her's whole family that feels the stress on a constant basis. It's got me stumped as to where the human care is amongst the Governments of today. Women are having babies and making a career out of it. The payers are left with virtually nothing in their take home pay for basically one third of their working life at the most the CSA can extract from them, sometimes based on unbelievable decisions. 23% before tax works out to be roughly 29% of their take home wages for a 13 year old and upwards. Don't get me wrong, I think the fathers need to pay towards the upkeep of the child, but not when the payer has nothing left to live on. There is something very wrong with the whole system. I wish the Government would realise this and act on it. It isn't that they don't know what is happening, but it is all just brushed under the carpet and the truth hidden from the public eye.