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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
You can expect thousands of signatures for that. Front page of fridays paper was a story about CSA reform. Pity it ended with "and domestic voilence makes all the new obligations void"
Awesome so nothing changes then.
I think your suggestion of paying based upon court order is BRILLIANT. Mine is 50/50 custody but i havent seen my son in nearly 10 years.
Absolutely! ! Sounds very similar to my story and many on here. It's also heartbreaking. It seems there is nothing that can be done other than to change the laws which are incredibly unfair for the children and the father. The whole system appears to favour the mother no matter what the circumstances. Well said. I'll sign it.
So i ask you - how on earth do you pass a post like the one from Vanella …. lost all respect for your site … won't be back.
Admin: No posts by you were vetted or deleted, however post by Vanella (SPAM) was removed.
Am not really sure what you were asking with your question though because the "living as a couple" as a reason for stopping paying relates to your child not your ex. So if your son/daughter stops living at home and lives as a couple with their own partner - but not if your ex re-partners.
The "unfairness" of the CSA calculations (but it goes both ways) is that when they look to the "capacity" or the "quality of living" for the child, it is done by comparing only the 2 relevant parent's incomes. So an ex could re-marry a millionaire, and the ex and the children may have a "quality of life" and a "capacity" that far exceeds a normal standard of living, BUT because the ex's income may only be $30K in that relationship, the calculation is based on that figure only.
Maybe one day someone will come up with a more equitable calculation that will be acceptable to the CSA, but for now it is far from equitable.
Ky - do a change of assessment. CSA doesn't look at "taxable income" when they investigate. as an example, my ex is in real-estate. She reported her taxable income at $28K. I did a change of assessment and CSA "deemed" her capacity at $80K.
The other thing the CSA will not permit is someone "choosing" to take a lower paid job. If someone reduces their income, do a change of assessment, and show the income that person had in their old job - the CSA as has the power to base an assessment on "capacity". that is why if a paying parent quit their job they incur a debt (redundancy is different). if a payee parent quits their job it can reduce the paying parent's assessment - BUT you have to do a change of assessment.
Yes in short, you are being screwed. Welcome to CSA. You mayhave over paid your cs liability for a prior period now that her income has been lodged higher, but too bad there is no refund or credit available, AND- your subsequent assessments will be higher as per the responses you've received below.
All the best mate. What can youdo? Nothing. Suck it up!
Daren is almost there but has touched on your income goes up CS does. Yes the other parents income can cause an increase.
combined parents income determines the cost of child so more income from the other means a higher total cost. This can cause increase because although you now pay a lower percentage it is of a higher cost. Example follows. Two things determibe what you pay your care level and your percentage of income.
So for example to make it easy. Say you have nil care so mum has 100% and of the combined income you earn 90%. The cost of the child is $5000. The formula would say you are responsible for 90% of the cost due to the income split and meet nil in care therefore 90% of $5000 would be your assessment which is $4500.
Now mum does her tax and her income is higher making combined income higher so cost of child goes to $6000. With her income increase you now earn 80% of combined income. Again in this example you have nil in care so pay 80% of $6000. So $4800 a 300 increase
Now if the care changes also the formula does so mums income going up will not always cause this but it can.
On top of that, while there was once an upper limit for income, the calculations are now worked on joint incomes and percentages thereof. So if either of your incomes increases beyond the next threshold, then the "cost" for supporting that child is deemed to have also increased (all to do with "the child should be allowed to live in the same lifestyle that the parents do (based on income)).
So as a rudimentary example, if the child is 13 and lives with your ex and she lives in a modest home, with the child going to the local school and the value attributed to the "cost" for that child is deemed at $9000/year, then your income increases dramatically - even though the wife still lives in the same house, the child is still 13 and still goes to the same school, that is - nothing in their lives changes - the CSA might then say because of the total of the "joint income" has increased so dramatically, that it now costs $13000 / year to support that same child - and yes, as i have already said …nothing has changed except you have improved your own situation.
the difficulty for me here is that if the wife does not change the child's situation at all … then where does that extra money go - of course it goes to the ex's lifestyle / mortgage etc.
anyway, hope this assists … if your incomes go up, yes it can increase the "cost" of the child, and therefore the amount you have to pay.
I am hoping someone can help.I pay child support to an ex.Just received a letter today from CSA saying that my ex's income is 20k higher than first assessed,yet my payments have gone up!!I rang CSA for an explanation and was informed that under the formula used both of our income is assessed,deductions taken out then our incomes are combined and then my payments are calculated. Does this sound right?It seems bizarre to me that the more she earns the higher my payment becomes.I commented to the CSA lady that using this formula if my ex earns 500k then my payments would increase,her response was that she refuses to comment.I am perplexed any help would be appreciated
Ask CSA for an payment extension plan. They should allow you to pay the $1500 over 3 months along with your normal payments. CSA don't like to do it that way because they miss out on the bank interest of your money in their account. This is why it takes up to two weeks for ex partners to receive the money we fork out.
Been in the same boat mate.
if your ex doesnt lodge tax returns and her income ends up being HIGHER, meaning, your original assessment shoulda been less, but too late you've already paid it - you dont get a refund or a credit.
My EX hasn't reported her taxable income or lodged a tax return for the past few years and just a few weeks ago lodged her tax return. Her tax return is for $9,000 and because of this the CSA have reassessed my child support payments and I now owe her $1500 in back pay. They used their assumptions in her previous 3 years of income.
The problem I have with this is
1. I am always on time in making my monthly payments and will always update the CSA straight away if my income changes.
2. I am lumped with a debt with 4 weeks to pay just because my ex neglected to keep them updated with their income.
3. I know for a fact my ex takes cash paid jobs for her business so there is no way for her actual income to be correctly reported.
I am all for paying what is required but I don't agree with having to back pay money at short notice when my ex is clearly doing the wrong thing!
Anyone else in the same boat as me?
A child working is not a terminating event. A child working can be considered under Change of assessment and may reduce a payment only not stop it. The child would need to be on an income considered enough to support an adult i.e. bot trainee or apprentice or part time then it may be considered as to how much support they give themselves.
The main issues raised below are the child not in either parents care and potentially in genuine domestic relationship.
Hope thats helpful. Often arguing the wrong issue can make the process tougher
Your comment earlier:
…the mother( the ex ) of my first daughter has 3 other kids to 3 different man..
No offence pal but what does this say about the 'Justice' system and societies values; enshrined in Law.
This mother is deliberatly using the system. Females like this should have to wear chastity belts or be, spayed or neutered.
The system makes some, usually payers accountable and lets the
freeloaders 'off the hook' - contradictions galore!
Sorry I thou u had more kids to the x
Good on your daughter for helping u out and dropping csa payments
I thou csa had a section on the website that once a child is working and is bringing in their own pay to support themself that csa no longer cames into it and u no longer have to pay also once she moves out of the parent home the mother has no right to any form of payment to centre link it should be goin to the daughter. U can ask the daughter to go to centre link her self and have the records updated to show she no longer lives at her mothers so that way the mother cant get a thing as centre link an csa are linked
Based on what you have said being true fir SSAT you will need..
Stat dec from your daughters boyfriend or family or her tafe enrolement info which will have her address.
When she called csa would have told her she cannot notify and called mum to confirm.
It is likely she is claiming that she is caring for your daughter while she lives there.
You should also look up section 2.2.1 of child support guide on www.dhs.gov.au and include points from that address member of a couple. As a child in a couple cannot be claimed for.
Its not your bad luck orvthem taking her side it is about proof and uess you can establish the change they leave it going.
If you talk to her and the boyfriend read the above and address it.
1. My daughter did call up CSA and told her situation that she is living her boyfriend and that she is attending tafe and working part time at hair dressing salon. When CSA spoken to the mother of my daughter she did say that she is living at her boyfriends house and that was it. In March when the ex phoned CSA regarding her other payments for her other 3 children that she has with someone else the lady over the phone has adviced her that she isn't receiving any more payments for her oldest child as she isn't living under the same roof.
2.She is living with her boyfriends parents and nothing there is on her address. She has got a prepaid mobile phone... Apart from the tafe address that all her letter go to the new house.
I did call up CSA and they didn't want to hear a word what I am saying ...
3. How can I get the proof from the other party when she is miliking the system including the centerlink. She is still receiving the parenting payments from Centerlink under the mothers name not the childs?? I have been to the centerlink my self and the mother has put block so I cant talk to the people in there.
4. Why is it that CSA is always on the other parties side ?? My wife is about to go and have a major surgery and how am I going to support my self and my kids>??? pay the bills and the mortgage... ??
5. Yes I did apply for SSAT and its still in process..
Well I suppose its bad luck for me isn't it??
Issue 1- CSA cannot accept information from a child of the case. If an officer did then they would be in trouble.
2. To end the case because your daughter is no longer in mums or youe care needs to be advised by you or mum.
if she has left and is supporting herself or living with a boyfriend then you need to provide evidence. It cannot be a stat dec from her.
You can object or go to SSAT depending where it is up to. Perhaps a bill or something at her new address.
When a child is no longer eligible under the act it can be backdated. So if mum is being dishonest get your proof and it will back date and CSA will do it.
Good luck getting it accurate.
I have had a daughter from my previous relationship and now I am happily married …the mother( the ex ) of my first daughter has 3 other kids to 3 different man.. and when she phoned CSA they have told her that my daughter has closed the CSA … and what did mother do complained etc…. The case is now re opened without me having a say etc… as they don’t care what fathers want to say etc…. CSA is now saying that I have to back pay from February of this year… and that the CSA has made a mistake closing the account. What a lot of b*******… CSA is good for the bin …
Your older daughters case was closed so no more csa payments to her right ?
But you still have 3 other kids to your x so you still pay csa for them is that right ? If thats correct your x and csa are in the right to collect payments from you. Sorry if I read your comment wrong btw
Oh mate I feel for you - bloody hell. This is tantamount to
psychological torment to say the least. CSA in its finest form again systematically destroying lives mostly fathers.
Hang in there mate. Just think you could have been lucky and been born in another Western country where you would be treated the same.
Take care mate!
Five months later I had to fill all the forms and the objections and bla bla bla .... and CSA has re opened the case because they believe the mother and now I am in the debt. I would of understood if I closed my own case but it wasn't me it was the other party. The CSA law and what ever you want to call it is SHOCKING they don't know if they coming or going. Its destroying my marriage and the list goes on... they don't give a stuff how I am going to live and provide for my new family and my other two kids.
Its beyond a joke...
So many go claiming they cannot afford cs but without a special circumstance they are refused. Late lodgement is not a special circumstance.
Hardship for CSA is about ability to repay arrears and in this info is not shared
No....info was shared in a coa.I learned that my ex was earning 104k a year. I was also informed that her wages in the previous years were between 64k and 90k depending on how much she was away as a supervisor on the country link rail network. I was going through a COA because my son ran away from his mother for the 3rd time. Didn't send him home after that.....but that's another story.
Good luck if doing Change of assessment. What they have told you is correct and per my previous information
If you weren't named on the Birth Certificate, the mother can almost do whatever she wants. It's worth following up though, because you may discover a whole lot of useful information.
Secondly, go to the family court and get an Order for the mother to provide all details. Now while you would normally have to serve this application on the mother, if you don't know where she is, also make the application to the court for 3rd party service and request that service is made by way of the CSA. You might also seek an Order that until the mother informs you of the contact details for the child, that the CSA payments are suspended temporarily. This can occur - you may still have to pay, but the CSA will hold the money and not pay the mother until she complies ...or the court may order that you don't have to pay at all until the mother complies.
A child support debt is between the payer and csa under the Registration and collection act 1988. A payee hands over all negotiation power when they apply for collection. Although they can say they are not happy about how CSA handles the debt they cannot be part of the debt arrangement and must accept the agreement between csa and the payer. They cannot denand any enforcement action. Bruce you need to learn the facts first.
If your information was shared under hardshuphardship it is incorrect if it was you justifying expenses during CoA then it is correct. These are very different with one sitting under collection act and the other the assessment act. A phone call to CSA will reassure mark they are bot sharing this.
A CoA form and process is not hardship for debt. This would be on an Assets and liability.
child support debt is a debt to commonwealth and thus the payee is not a party to debt negotiation. You can refer to the Child Support guide for facts
As the payee has no need under the act ie. They cannot object to amount extra paid they have no requirement to the information.
This is correct..check with csa or privacy comissioner
They definitely share it with your ex. Trust me i know from experience! The debt is not just between you and CS. Any request for anything other than penalty remission gets sent to the other party. Thats not how you play cricket. Good luck.
you could always report her to centre link it can be done on line or over the phone
The male payer parent supports 2 families - the other non-working partner, who is supported by a good wage from a new partner, is fully supported from 2 streams ... THAT was my point.
If your x repartners she is not allowed to any centrelink benefits at all and should be removed from them if she tells centrelink as they go of her new partners income. CSA state that its not up to her new partner to suppot your kids so his income is not taken into account.
CSA and centre link are linked if you pay child support then centre link find out and take the payments off her family tax A & B payments to get some of the money back
EG for every dollor the x gets in child support centre link take 50 cents of her payments ( hope that made sence )
Now consider that the ex re-partners, and still earns $30,000. the new partner earns $120,000. if you now work out the ex's "lifestyle" capacity, she has access to $30K, plus $120K, plus all the Centrelink benefits and allowances, plus about $35K tax free from your income (based on 2 kids). WOW.
Solution - bring back an upper, and reasonable, limit that encourages the paying parent to keep working and keep improving themselves for the benefit of their new family. also, introduce some mechanism that can look at cases where the children are moved interstate for a fairer and more equitable calculation.
Family law/csa multi million dollar racket, destroying families and creating the new " Stolen Generation" it is actually " Crimes Against Humanity".
Personally knowing many fathers who struggle to see their kids and reading here how many are having the same problems, it just proves how common it is when a father is restricted access ,including myself may I add. My wife said that if csa gave my ex a credit card in my name,then it would be easy to see what she spends the money on as I would get the receipt each months . This would make her more accountable no doubt. And the receipt could be used as evidence in court. This would give the paying parent a sense of some control of how the money is being spent. It's not complicated and could easily set up by the extortionists at csa. The other major thing IF YOU DONT SEE YOUR KIDS Then YOU DONT PAY! Or the restricting parent looses custody. How hard is it to understand???. Man are committing suicide, women are getting murdered, children are torn apart and damaged (Stolen Generation) but it's all in the best interests of the child the family law/ csa bastards say. And the gov bustards want to protect us from the terrorists ???well tell that to the 21 one fathers who commit suicide each week and the 2 women murdered every three days.
Advance Australia Fkn Fair!
My sympathies to both of you I feel for you and thankfully I'm not in that position I get my boys 6 days a fortnight. I think not being allowed to see your kids would be worse then the money CSA extort.
I believe that parents in your position shouldn't have to pay child support after all the decision to have access to your children has been taken away from you, unless there is a very good reason no parent should be denied access to thier children.
Unfortunately the whole system fails here big time.
What I believe should happen is that when a relationship of parents of children break down there should be a process of assessment on both parents and the decision's on where the children stay and with who should be decided by a third party obviously also taking into account what both parents want but what also should be taken into account is gender of the child, abuse in the relationship, and many other factors, this would give a fair outcome for the child hopefully.
I feel your pain. i did that pain for about 6 years until finally deciding to move forward.
Dry season is about the only thing i miss of darwin. can i tell you what i did? Option A was suicide. its still an option really. Since i had zero contact with my son i bit the bullet and moved away, down south.
I moved to melbourne and got a job as a contractor -business admin/sales. I have had 5 jobs since and all have been happy to pay me as a contractor. im now in qld.
its not about dodging CS. its about regaining CONTROL. I've met my obligations (well sort of, my now-wife takes care of the payments and i have a small debt, which isn't a debt its an "over assessment" - a BUFFER, just to make sure i dont over pay her one cent more,
dissolving the extortion and having control over the money is 90% of the problem. lets face it, the MONEY is the very tool that allows your ex to live freely without obligation to you.
the other 10% is a walk in the park. you could negotiate school holidays ie the kids visit, i'll give you $1,000 go have a bender with your girlfriends in bali for a few days.
that would be $1,000 that would ordinarily be due anyways, but you can dress it up in such a way that she actually says..... THANK YOU, JOHN. HERE'S THE KIDS. HAVE A NICE WEEK.
hang in there mate.
Oh such a beautiful day in the 'top end' dry season.
Only to realise that my X has blocked my cell phone from contacting their land line and all their (somtimes functioning) cell phones.
And its the four week school holiday break.
Death by a thousand cuts.
Hey CSA: Note this in your Captains ship log.
1) Parental Alienation syndrome - ongoing.
2) SAD's (stress anxiety depression) all indicate extreme 5 out of 5.
3) Client requires ongoing support and caution in dealings from the CSA.
4) Put on 'watch list'.
The whole system is a crock of shit anyway, he switches bank accounts, jobs and addresses regularly and fails to lodge tax returns. He does not have to pay. And don't get me started on the family court situation, kids and I walked away with the clothes on our backs, by the time it went to trial (as he refused to participate in negotiation or turn up at court ever) he had managed to gamble away all of our money and assets. When there's nothing left you get nothing and like csa say, you can't het blood from a stone. Oh well, like the ex says, that's my punishment for leaving, like I had a choice.
Whinge complete :)