[+Add your comment]
Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Thanks very much for the supporting words; they are most welcome.
On a broader front; I work in the Public sector and have done so for near 20 years now. I have seen first hand how policy and POWER to determine other people's lives is dished out by 'the system' within the legislative framework operating at the time.
Without personalising this too much I see middle level PS employees having the power to determine other people's lives at the stoke of a 'mouse click'. Yep and i suspect that their level of emotional intellect and awareness of the effect they have on others as being of 'official relevance and concern only' - but then relegated to a determination to get the job done.
I see such pernicious legislation and SOOOOOO much power bestowed upon the great unwashed as a danger to a normal functioning society. A society that has lost the ability to solve such complex issues as child support and caring arrangements; amongst consenting adults. (my case).
The default situation is to bring in the FLC and the knee capers, the CSA to collect the debts. Oh in the childs best interest of course yes thank you for reminding me!
No, let's call a spade a spade; unfortunately given my education (6 years post secondary) and a penchant to continue using my grey matter. I will work it out for myself after many sources of misinformation (including CSA) and some legal advice (feed the machine....big dollars e.g. $800 for a letter).
I ask such fundamental questions of myself such as; What's important to me? What's my purpose in life? The answers are quite clear and I will stand up to any spineless public servant or Minister or the Wiggs should they call this on.
This situation I have unwittingly fallen into is an utter violation of my personal human rights without getting into any laws (back off wigs).
My position and decisions are entirely defensible as probably are many other people such as yourself (I guess?).
I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. Except perhaps marrying the wrong person and throwing myself at the Catholic Church and those peodophile Bishops and Cardinals (protected by the wiggs) oh there is a pattern emerging here; do you see it too?
Don't you just love being in control of your life.
Wow so good to be a paying parent on 0% care - nirvana divided by zero.
Keep the dream alive and take the best path forward because the system sucks no two ways about it.
Good luck you all....
Will you remove me form this forum now that I have spoken! Ha!
No problem with where you are coming from here. Basically its the law and the CSA is just doing its job. I have no issue with my dealings with the CSA except being ill advised on several occasions by as it turns out Female advisors.
No this issue I have is the LAW and the %care arrangements. As a 0% career I have tried to work within the law to rebuild my life and establish a house and reasonable living quarters so my kids could have a 50/50 care arrangement (should they want this?).
1 year into separation my income was above 100K with succesful investments from my equity in the shared house we used to have. So formula assessment (FA) was legitimately applied and as I become more financially sucessful and my income became greater than the X I was approaching 1K per fortnight to CSA - fine and dandy.
I made enquiries with CSA and its a done deal with formula assessment. So i gave up and turned to a survival strategy of 'making myself a smaller target' vis-a-vis FA.
Clearly the system is wrong for 'good parents' such as I. Try to build an income stream to allow for a modest 2 br flat in Darwin costing then only about 450K. So 2.5 K fortnight mortgage. Hmmm well I don't have that sort of money left after CSA so - oh well I'll give it a miss thanks.
So with this unsatisfactory outcome in mind I mindfully, with plenty of support from a psychologist whom I am forever in debt. Forged a way forward.
The outcome of all this is several dot points:
1) providing housing for myself and children is impossible on my 100k income
2) FA is too aggressive for the 0% care looser to gain a foothold and get going again.
3) There is no viable support services for a person in my situation to negotiate a working path forward.
4) The 100% care person is in such a powerful position that they have no reason to negotiate and can live quite comfortably in a state of apathy and reap the financial incentives. Without lifting a finger - nice!
5) The children live in an environment where the 100% carer is seen as the essential parent providing all services and needs and wants for 'their' children.
So for me I go back to item 1 action list as provided in a previous post.
I have to action Item 1 as its the only defensible option.
Has my mental health suffered under this regime? Absolutely why woudn't it.
Have I made the best job out of 'the system' for me? Indeed I have.
I am proud of what I have achieved and look forward to starting a new life in another country for which effort and
fair play are rewarded.
Dealing with the CSA all the while is also a very psychologically taxing and mind numbing scenario and can vouch for others on the forum that would rather do CofA etc via electronic forms. There appears to be no empathy or recognition of the fact that the rules are so very demeaning for most payers and empowering for the lazy apathetic 100% er's who can just sit back and be most concerned with how they spend their well deserved earnings on house reno's, holidays and the good things in life....
Nice one I am out'a here! The toxicity and negativity must end or life has no meaning.
Some take the easy option and I can fully understand that as bad as it is.
I have said before do not agree with a good mum or dad not seeing their kids. Yes there are cases of dads withholding care too.
I do believe the child support should be paid at the correct amount under the act. This is to stress everyone should know the system so they do not end up on the wrong end.
I think remembering when you speak to them they also have limites options and that is not lack of care. Please note a rude officer should not be accepted but also nor should a rude customer.
Now COA. This is a hard thing and is intended to address special issues. Do some parents use it as a weapon yes but csa must take and consider an application. John I would guess from your comment you had reason 8 capacity application go against you.
My suggestion is if the outcome is wrong object then go to SSAT if needed. If the outcome is correct and you just don't like it then there is no real option.
My concern John with your approach is that forever you have changed your life as it is likely there is a debt waiting in Australia and it can be chased in 260 other countries and this gives your ex so much influence over your life.
The system and improvements. Just read the Parkinson review and consider how you could better write the system to fit all people. Do I believe custody will ever be legislative. .no as it is an industry that makes money legally. You want csa to change something don't abuse them talk to parliament.
Just remember inaccurate information about child support is very dangerous
Yes Domestic Violence is a topical issue in the mass media.
IMO when a person (let's remove the gender issue here) has no funded system for support and is (in my personal experience) stigmatized and alienated in the community when they disclose their situation its a no-brainer that they feel powerlessness.
Real CS Info has said on this forum that the CSA has had discretionary powers taken from it (back to the FLC) more recently in regards to parental (%care etal).
IMO - There are two very important issues given this situation, for the payer/alienated parent:
1) Make the situation the best it can be for you. I.e. involving GP - Psychologists - CSA - Forums like this etc to find the best path for you. In my case it's leaving the country and terminating a successful career and
2) Hope/expect law reform from the FLC and the Judiciary/Executive powers enshrined in our Parliament.
As a victim of abuse (parental alienation syndrome) myself. I channel my energy into point 1 to get the best outcome for me. Expect also to be demonized for being 'selfish' whilst undertaking this step too. The law as it stands appears to be geared towards 'the children' nothing could be further from the truth.
Be mindful that Australian democracy and you could include a bunch of other Western Countries in this is/are not functional democracies and have not been for decades. They have become hoodwinked by minority groups and populist culture.
So concentrate on chipping away at item 1 (i've been on this path since Sept 2011 when CSA slapped me with a big COA - leaving me no other option than getting out...
Good luck to all and REal CS Info is to be commended for his efforts on this forum.
May the force be with you.
Your Child Support period would be from 1 oct 2014 31 Dec 2015 as you probably lodge your income August lasr year. This means her income for last tax year is also needed from that date. Under the formula it is possible if her income was higher in some cases that it increases your payment. Best to call and checj what her income was and what it now is and what that has done to the cost of child.
what can happen to try and simplify this is. Your combined income has increased and that increases the cost of child which although your percentage payment of that may have gone down overall it is higher payment. E.g first assessment cost of child is $5000 and you pay 80% based on care and income being 4000. Now cost of child is 7000 and you pay 75% which is 4500 so an increase caused by overall higher joint income.
This new assessment has been back dated to 1st Oct 2014 and additional funds have been taken out ( my account was in credit by over a thousand ) equaling $442.00 extra.
Does this sound normal? It doesn't to me. I haven't contacted CSA yet, but will do so in the morning.
Thanks in Advance
CSA can provide and confirm these detaudetails.
My daughter finishes school this year, and turns 18 mid next year, she is deferring Uni for a year (2017), but according to the ex I still need to pay CS because our daughter is furthering her education. On the one occasion I asked CS about this, it was suggested that I wait until the time comes and then worry about it
Bruce yes yoy can call and aks csa to remitt the penalties and yes there are approval and refusal.conditions
I have a question about penalties & interest. Is it a simple process to ask for it to be wiped? Is there reasons for which they do/do not wipe? I have cleared my debt now and need to address the $ in penalties. Its about $4k. Thanks
it is an unincorporated entity that collects child support in perth
with abn number. so it is a "company" and not a government body it would appear. cheers
…….That's just the numbers, but what about the stories?
Several key elements were identified in domestic homicide. Separation, either impending or complete, was a factor in many cases. …
……How does a man become so terrified by the threat of his partner leaving him that the only solution he can find is to kill her or his children or himself? How do women become so terrified of their partner that they think their only way out is to kill him? Why is this something that only happens to men? What can we do for the men who feel so powerless that violence is their only option? Because if we do not find a way to help those men, we will never find a way to stop these deaths……
….Family and friends of abusive men need help understanding what domestic violence looks like and how to access services for perpetrators as well as victims.
We need better counselling services for men who feel powerless or out of control. We need to accept that helping them without shaming them will ultimately save lives……
……We need to increase substance abuse and mental health services for men and they must be an intrinsic aspect of the justice system's response to male violence……
So where is the Family Law Courts on all of this stuff? that’s my question too ‘the system’ wake up FLC – your laws are killing innocent people and ruining the lives of good men and their children.
Wake up Australia!
you can send me an email or contact me via Mens Shed in WA the guy managing that is Michael and he can link you with me. I am happy to help. I only charge if I can add some value which is usually from making you understand the rules.
To the comment of flat rate, this rate would have to be so low for low income workers that it would cost the budget hundreds of millions. The cost of children charged now vs old flat percentage is based on three studies done during parkinson review. These studies meashowed based on Australian spending what went to kids and that has inflation applied since 08. Prior to this you could be assessed for up to 5 kids and these studies showed that beyond three the costs raised then at about $80 per fortnight which would be addressed by FTB then or for higher income have less impact and it was reduced to max 3 kids. I am not saying I agree or disagree but this is where costs of children come.from since 2008. Prior to this it was 18,27,32,34 and 36% of gross income after exempt of approapprox $17,000 was removed. In old system pye income had approx $40000 disregarded.
I too am in that situation and feeling like i could benefit from some advice (i refuse to invoke a team of vultures for such matters) so i would be more than happy to use a paid service as you have described real cs info.
How can we formally contact you? My issue is not urgent, it may come up within 12 or so months.
Right thanks for the explanation with some anecdote of recent activity. I am happy to say you have qualified yourself as a worthy contributor to this site (if you needed it) and a member of the good people :-)
I may be going through a CofA launched by my X when I step down to retirement (self funded) early next financial year. I am almost certain that she will raise a 'special circumstances' reason 8 earning capacity but will wait and see.
If I need advice and support I shall certainly call on your expertise in this matter. Certainly as it stands my reason for stepping down (to retirement) will be on mental health grounds. I will still be paying CS under Formula Assessment of course but much less than current situ with income of 90K full time work.
Thanks Real CS Info may the force be with US.
You are correct I now get money from helping get a fair shake with their CSA issues. Let me tell you some recent issues..helped a guy remove 20k in lpps he paid me $100. Supported a guy to argue an unfair application for more payment would have meant he lost his ability to pay rent another $100.
A guy called me about custody we spoke for an hour no charge as I am not a lawyer and there is nothing I could do. The custody system is owned by the law society and even CSA can do nothing, i am not saying that is just or fair, should it change? Absolutely I completely
disagree with a good parent being stopped seeing their kids. The feeling of injustice though does not mean CSA can say don't pay.
There is a lot though you can do under CSA legislation and thats what I help with. I work closely with parent support groups.
perhaps the focus should not be on CSA rules but the custody system and the ability for people to withold care. If you gave CSA the power to apply costs per court order they would. please note in the past where CSA did have power to apply court ordered care they did. This rule was changed.
I think kids deserve both parents where the parents are fit of course
You are right I did use PC language because I try to talk in facts and am also very aware of the impact this stuff has on men and emotive language may have a negative impact on some guy reading it thinking there is no hope.
Much of whar you read here is incorrect like a recent comment saying csa charge $11 admin..they do not. Late payment penalties apply to overdue and may or may not be collected. Incorrext estimates of income also attract penalties but again you can ask never to pay them. There is no admin fee.
Real CS Info on 6/5/15 wrote:
"...The only thing non custodial parents need to remember is as soon as care is withheld ask CSA what they need to do for
an interim care decision and at least then for a period of up to 14 weeks their CS payment will not change and they
can focus on gaining contact back. This is as much as csa can do for you...."
Care is withheld - such a nice play on words and of course Politically Correct (PC) let's not forget.
Like so many other other PC terms very devisive and controversial. Enter Parasites (Lawyers and advisors)
for the feast.
The system is screwed because you (alienated parent with <= 50% care) have to PROVE that the other parent has denied
fair play. It will COST YOU to get a better deal - Enter Parasites ....are you the reader seeing a trend emerge here?
My situation now is that my 3 kids have been alientated from me by a disfunctional (100%) care parent.
I spoke with CSA recently for 45 mins and yes they can do nothing for you. So for me its go through the expense and
mental torture - almost feel like a defendant in a rape case with the parasites at FLC.
Nup! My kids have probably suffered irrepairable mental damage at the hands of what I am going to call 'the system'.
My conscious decision is to get away from 'the system' that feeds parasites at the fiscal and mental health expense of
the loser (me). I need to remove myself from all this toxicity, ignorance and unfairness/bullying.
I guess the upside is that the children that are dispersed into society from this system will become the new customers
for the parasites. Yes you got it - Serial rapist, DV offenders, substance abusers. armed robbers etc etc.
I am sorry to say that "Real CS Info" is also a beneficiary of 'the system'
............I now provide support to people on CS issues and yes I charge money......
Good on yer mate and ahhh kicking goals for 'the system'.
Seriously the best legal advice I ever got was from a barrister/lawyer friend who I know through yoga. When I touched
base with her on the CSA/FLC she suggested I run a mile and get the hell out of there with your mind and any money
you had left. That was 5 years ago and I am near to the final result now.
Good luck to the 'good people' and be dammed with the rest.
Csa is a huge agency which employs a lot of people, it is in their best interest that you stay in some invented , out of nowhere,up to their discretion debt to them, and why some would ask? Because then you pay them a weekly debt fee of around $11 or so dollars, which is their account keeping fee , and judging by the number of people here which have a debt to them it's a lot of money for them. No2 if your ex works then the formula is based on both your incomes right? But there is a nice little loophole she does not have to do her tax return, and like my brutal running away to another state claiming emotional violence x she does hers after she looses one of her many jobs , therefore iam informed by sca that I'll get a reduction , excellent right . Then a week later I get another friendly reminder from the csa that she no longer works and therefore I'm back to square 1 paying 100% of the formula. No3 don't sound like you know to much or they will blacklist you.
Don't vote for any of the major political parties as they're all part of this family law/csa racket. 5 years to go and counting.....hardly ever see my son, thank you csa/family law , another child without a father somewhere. Thank you God for giving me the strength to keep living and staying saine.....just....
The custody system is very tough. I have three kids and could not imagine not seeing them, I have coached their sport watched their school plays and now am watching two of them become teenagers.
CoA is a horrible process as it is one parent vs the other with CSA left to referee, and CSA would always prefer the parents manage it themselves but this does not always happen.
I now provide support to people on CS issues and yes I charge money. So far people I have helped have been very happy but I am up front. I do not help avoidance or finding ways to unfairly seek more, i explain ans empower people with accurate informarion to make good decisions.
Just because you can appapy for an estimate or CoA does not mean you should. People need to understand many other things too.
I see many comments here about how the rules view care, the reason actual care is used that in the past parents have walked away and the laws became tougher.
The only thing non custodial parents need to remember is as soon as care is withheld ask CSA what they need to do for an interim care decision and at least then for a period of up to 14 weeks their CS payment will not change and they can focus on gaining contact back. This is as much as csa can do for you, but do not mistake that for not caring.
If anyone wants individual advice I can provide it, the information may not be popular with you but I am not here to argue fairness just accurate. This at least allows you to make informed decisions. Good luck
Thank you for the info on retirement and CofA reason 8. Sorry I was incorrect with the terminology 'objection' is not to be confused with CofA. The whole business has been constructed by lawyers and its an alphabet soup. Talking the CSA/FLC lingo is exhausting and mentally draining. Often leading to lay people like me falling into misunderstandings with the CSA helpline people. Of course this was all "intentional" so that Lawyers could make a good living of the proletairiate.
Back in the real world my X can lodge a CofA when my income falls to self funded pension. I have armed myself with plenty of circumstantial evidence on mental health grounds so will see how this goes. Basically I have been dealing (unsucessfully) with Parental alienation syndrone (PAS)) for the past 4 years.
I had a lengthy discussion with CSA last week about my plans and I back up your claim that they are powerless to intervene in areas like PAS and bullying and child abuse. Indeed the FLC appears under current legislation to sanction it in favour of the parent who has the bulk of care percentage. My X = 100 % me 0% and homeless.
Sorry but any thinking ratoinal person who is on the receiving end of this has no option but to get out and that is what I am doing in the next financial year.
I've nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of - except marrying the wrong woman perhaps.
Takes two to tango and the other one is persisting on crushing me with the support of the FLC. Kids they don't matter in all this - simply collateral damage.
Dam the system, its broken!
Best of luck to you all.
They have a formula to destroy men. With all the studies and psychologists, professors, doing their studies on this all over the world. And they can't see that this is child abuse and a war against heterosexual men. We have the highest suicide rate per capita in this country, and no one can see that these laws may be the cause of this ? Or the fact two women are killed every three days. And no one can see the writing on the wall???they talk about animal cruelty yet men are treated worse than animals by this system.
They talk about discrimination and equal rights for women? Then why do woman get custody over man, is a woman a better parent? This system 666 promotes bad behaviour and the victims will be the innocent ones man or woman. Recommend reading Henrymakow.com if you really want to know where this all comes from.
The standard formula is based on previous years income. Then there are the exceptions..one a parent lodges and estimate which to other posters can be done online but I recommend contact as these are not always best option.
the next is CoA reason 8. Two diffedifferent things here..The first Capacity to earn which is what you are referencing and this is where the other parent would have establish that your early access to a pension is an attempt to resuce your CS and you could still be earning FT wages..So many things come in here, your health, age and pension law. So depends why you are doing this but this is only if she initiates this application. The second part of 8 someone can apply is capacity to pay..which simply put means more access to cash than your income reflects.
Just to touch on others points about CSA supporting emotional abuse, CSA does not and would love to see all parents who should have contact having it but the power given to them is binding and CS must be based on actual care except for interim decisions. If you have court ordered care and the other parent withholds for a 14 week period if you show you are taking steps to get that access you can have the cs based on the order.
CSA is as bound by the rules as you are.
yes i can enforce the arrangement with a police escort to extract him from her house, but is that really in the childs best interests i think not.
Thanks Annon from TAS i saw that objection form somewhere and it seemed like a reasonable workaround. why cant they just be civil? not everyone is a deadbeat dad for gods sake no need to treat them like it straight off the bat.
After reading the last couple of posts lm wondering if anyone does have court orders in place.l have concent orders by court my lawyers told me as the mum l have to stick to them at all cost other wise lm in breach BUT the the father can break them when ever he wants and nothing is done or said all l get is owell he is a male wtf ?
Bryon and annon yeah there are several tricks and loopholes mothers can use to keep the children from the father, in my case my ex changed the childrens schools without even consulting me and i filed an urgent court order to resolve the issue and had the court return my documents saying it wasn't urgent. And yeah if she keeps the kids from you she will get more money from child support and CSA don't care about that, they will just ask who has them.
I have a question about income estimation. I have submitted an estimate online and CSA say they cannot accept it without talking to me first. is this true? I talk to them and they cannot be civil. therefore i have no interest in verbally communicating with them. can they really reject my estimate on this basis? I have simply told them i am not available by phone and to communicate via email/snail mail.
Just a simple question but probably not easily answered.
I have reached 'preservation age' and are enititled to retire (age 57). Can I retire and declare my assessable income as it is i.e. my pension (self funded) without due recourse?
My understanding is the 'X' can lodge a objection that I have deliberately 'steped down' defined as 'earning capacity' in the legislation. However retirement is available to ALL normal people who have not made such a grave mistake as getting married and having kids.
For your information I do have a range of evidence on health grounds should this all get messy - just as a backup.
CSA told me i have to pay full child support even though she isn't allowing me to see the kids. I told CSA she is keeping them from me and all they said was go see a lawyer and prove you want your kids. So until then i have to pay full child support.
I'm all for paying for my kids, but i would love to see them. Why do i have to pay full child support because she is refusing to let them see me. She is claiming they are in her care for 100% of the time.
by Clayton Craddock • April 20, 2015 • 0 Comments
Spread the word!Tweet about this on TwitterShare on FacebookEmail this to someoneShare on Google+Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUponShare on LinkedInPin on PinterestShare on RedditDigg this
Should everyone support his or her children? Yes. Is court-ordered “child support” supporting your children? NO one knows.
Yes you can have your accessment changed to have any and all of the csa money owning from the 6 mths you were in jail you just need to have all the jail paper work and send it into csa ( keep copys ) and it take about 55 - 80 days to have it fixed.
I recently lodged tax returns for the years 2010-2014. I never bothered to update my income (because when i did, the assessment would revert to some higher amount anyway) and i assumed when i lodged my tax returns the liability would be reconciled to my taxable income. So at the moment i have a $10k debt which should disappear upon reconciliation - except..... As i am learning this is not the case!!
Come someone please tell me is there any, ANY circumstance in which i can change the assessments? For example i lodged my 2009 tax return at about $53k and then my assessment was bumped to $85k. My 2010-2014 returns were around $30k-$40k as i worked only casual/part time. So i have a CSA debt from income that didnt exist. HELP!
I also went to prison for 6 months of 2010. Can i have the assessment retrospectively changed?
Email me if you want eg. if i do end up locking it down but u want to keep editing. but yeah not too interested in talking with any solicitors.
email not fake i just created it for this site. That's 20x 7's :)
For the first time this current year I have been varying my income several times (making myself a smaller target). Because this Revising estimates is so bloody complicated i try doing the least nbr of adjustments. Just for your information if your taxable ATO Assessable income is more than 10% above what CSA had on their books you incure penalties and pay arrears in the next billing period. HOWEVER this is the clincher!
IF you pay too much (I know this is unlikely..) in any billing period (1 year) you DONT GET IT BACK END OF STORY.
The nice friendly Gal at CSA told me: "This is an incentive to make sure you keep tellig us when your circumstances change" Ha what a joke. These CSA laws are a disgrace! If you overpaid for ANYTHING ELSE ANYWHERE AS A TRANSACTION YOU WOULD BE CREDITIED THE DIFFERNCE. AH AH NOT THE CSA UNFUCKINBELIEVABLE!!!
Keep the dream alive and got out of this Cuntry!
Best of luck
this is the sought of direction we need..