Child Support Discussion Forum



Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?

Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.

Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.

For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.

Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.

From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.

As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,

Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!

Start writing a comment now...

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    By: Bryon from QLD, australia on June 24, 2015 @ 12:23 pm
    Aimee i would like clarification on something.

    You mentioned that if CS over estimate the payers earnings then the receiver's entitlement from centrelink is reduced.

    what happens when the payer lodges a tax return and the true liability is realised - does the receiver then get a lump sum back payment from centrelink? i would assume so?
    By: Aaron from NSW, Australia on June 24, 2015 @ 12:14 pm
    BK

    I was referring in relation to a single parent who doesn't go out and get a job, I was referring to the instance where the other parent does have an income.

    I certainly don't condone what your ex partner and father to your children did, nor was he an acceptable example of a father, if he is truly the man you say he is then no children should be around him as he is a risk to thier safety, his own and everybody else's.

    The point I'm trying to make is that a parent who makes no effort to get a job and provide for thier children doesn't set a good example to the child nor does it show that they are putting thier children first.

    Nowhere did I mention a monetary figure in my statement, you have a job and have made the effort to work, therefore my statement is certainly not aimed at you nor a $30,000 vs $130,000 scenario it's more aimed at job vs no job or job vs can't be bothered making the effort to get a job.

    Sounds like you trying to do the best for your kids, that's what counts, it's about putting the kids first
    By: Bryon from qld, australia on June 24, 2015 @ 12:14 pm
    BK, thanks for sharing your story.

    I think the ONLY thing we can all agree on is that CS is not a "one size fits all" issue and yet, that is the ONLY thing that needs to change. just like when you get divorced there is a mandatory (albeit straightforward) process. CS should be the same. lets address the husband & wife as a unique pair humans parting ways.

    a blanket approach for millions of people with such vast variations of circumstance only means lose lose. THIS is what needs addressing.

    good on you BK for picking yourself up and dusting yourself off. you are a great role model of resiliance for your children.
    By: BK from Wa, Australia on June 24, 2015 @ 9:27 am
    In response to having the child/ren reside with the earning parent..
    Pre separation my children and I lived with my husband living comfortably on his $130,000 income. I was a home maker with limited education and work experience. My husband was aware of this when we met. 9 years later he became an abusive methamphetamine addict that would stash needles around our home, hit me and strangle me in front of our children. The last straw was coming home to find him hanging from the ceiling, clinically dead. He lived, I left, and he now has a $35,000 debt to csa that he refuses to pay. The past three years I have re educated myself and taken what work I can, though I am extremely limited due to my experience and the distance I can travel and still be able to collect my children before child care closes. So just because I can only earn $30,000 annually, should that mean I place my children in the care of their unstable abusive father, as he could provide financially better than I?
    I don't know how he could take them to school or childcare with a 5am start!
    By: Mark from nsw, australia on June 23, 2015 @ 7:35 pm
    you are correct no one would agree with that. I like where you said the parent with an income takes the care and custody. I'm mean after due diligence is done. But my question is, are we going to act on these changes or are we just talk them off here.
    540. By: Aaron from NSW, Australia on June 23, 2015 @ 3:18 pm
    Aimee

    Unfortunately the welfare system as a whole, centrelink, child support services etc. let's everyone down that is honest.

    It's obvious that the welfare system is there to support the unscrupulous.

    These individuals should be tracked down and held accountable, made responsible.

    Unfortunately it's too big an issue for the public servants to get on top of.

    My view along with many others is that the system should change, but no matter what you do not everyone will be happy.

    If the rules where the way I think should be someone would still complain.

    For instance I believe where one parent has an income and the other parent doesn't then the parent with the income should automatically get primary care of the children. Not everyone will agree with that.

    Child support where one parent is unemployed I believe should be based on thier potential to earn and not what they earn. Not everyone would be happy with that.

    Child support should be measured on income after tax, someone out there wouldn't like that.

    And that's only the tip of the iceberg on my views here but the point is, not everyone will be happy and people will still wrought the system, no matter what is done people will be ripped off and people will still find a way to rip people off, avoid thier responsibility to thier children etc. Sorry your ex doesn't support thier children, not all dads are like that, despite my views and what I'm meant to pay I'be still paid thousands more this financial year towards my children then I'm obliged to by CSA but that's because they are my kids
    By: John from NT, Australia on June 23, 2015 @ 2:29 pm
    Aimee
    Whilst not denying your need and being ripped off by a parent that doesn't put salary 'across the books' this applies to BOTH genders.

    AS far as tax deductability goes; I wish you would check the facts before sprouting off on this forum. THERE IS NO TAX DEDUCTABILITY FOR CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS! This is personally very insulting to see this sort of misinformation on the site!

    Check your facts befoer posting please.

    Misinformatoin likethe stuff the CSA puts out is very difficult to handle and is a very sensitive area.

    All 'posters' should be aware of this and sensitive to the way in which their information can be interpreted. RED FLAG ALERT.

    More emphathy please!

    Regards
    By: Aimee from Qld, Australia on June 23, 2015 @ 2:20 pm
    Hi Ive notice a lot of people on here are struggling with child support. I think men like my ex has made me quite bias on the view. However I had a stepchild once and went to work to help pay the support but I did not have my own child at this point. I would like to point out that failure to pay child support or make an arrangement also affects the mother. If she is on centerlink her money will be cut because of your income and if you dont pay on your end your child can be left going without. For example my ex earnt over 100,000.00 because of this my pay was cut to $350 a fort night (he dose not pay his child support however). Leaving me having to pay rent, power, food ect for myself and child. This has made my life very hard, extremely stressed and emotional. I tried going to work but daycare ended up costing me 300+ a week which left me $50 a wk, a far cry less then what centrelink payments gave me. We are unable to collect child support because he wont lodge, when he does he wont claim any returns, and they are always years behind so he is no longer at that place of employment. It is because of acts like this that single mothers think more should be done to force fathers to help. Most mothers are 100% comfortable if you pay your child support to the school, or daycares ect. you can use these receipts for child support to reduce your bill. So if you have 2 kids in school why not pay 3 lots, its all tax deductable, you know its going to the child.
    By: Aaron from NSW, Australia on June 21, 2015 @ 10:03 pm
    The whole welfare system is a joke, as a single parent I was $6750 better off a year then what I am now, likewise my wife also roughly better off by about the same amount, I don't necessarily care too much about benefits I receive but why should a single parent be that much more better off then a married couple.

    Top this off with paying an ex that chooses not to work, why should I pay her for not working ? To make things even better my current wife is going to have a baby and my maintenance payments will only reduce be 16% So I'm supposedly meant to support the child that lives with me full time on 16% of the amount of my kids that only live with me 40% of the time, I really don't understand how that works, in addition as previously stated they calculate the amount on the taxable amount, not what you get in your hand and to top this off the self care amount is a joke also $23000 something thousand, gone through that before I've even fed myself and run my car, the whole welfare system needs to changed, but how do you take them on to get them to change it ?
    By: Bruce from QLD, Australia on June 21, 2015 @ 9:18 pm
    Ky: yes correct. You will be raped and pillaged for more!
    By: Ky from Nsw, Australia on June 21, 2015 @ 7:57 pm
    I am currently forced to pay over $400 per week to my ex who ears $90000.00 per year simply because I earn slightly more than him. He has been done drink driving and could lose his job. If he does will I be forced to pay even more because of his stupidity?
    By: Esther Fisk from alabama, United States on June 16, 2015 @ 12:15 pm
    Divorce is the biggest difficult moment but after that also many problem arises and one such is the issue of fighting for child custody and also always comes in the hand of women but now it is changing scenario and dads have proved themselves by proper approach i solved my case to get custody from lawyer Centreville, VA of the www.leemeierlaw.com
    By: Jess Young from SA, Australia on June 8, 2015 @ 10:24 pm
    I continue to be so angry that child support is taken from a wage BEFORE TAX. It makes me sick!!!!!
    What the hell is wrong with the system????
    The only thing that we can do is explain to our male children is to wear 2 codoms, and if EVER A WAN SAYS SHE CANNOT GET PREGNANT DUE TO MEDICAL ISSUES -PUT A THIRD CONDOM ON
    I am certainly not trying to be revolting, I am speaking the truth xxxx
    By: Bryon from Qld, Australia on June 8, 2015 @ 8:16 pm
    Kris. Nailed it.

    Child support IS spousal support. Its not child support. Period. Stop kidding ourselves
    By: Bryon from Qld, Australia on June 8, 2015 @ 7:20 pm
    http://www.familylawexpress.com.au/family-law-news/familylawcourts/precedent/mother-loses-custody-after-preventing-judge-takes-girl-away-from-selfish-mum-and-gives-her-to-dad-in-custody-battle/2688/

    530. By: Kris from Nsw, Australia on June 8, 2015 @ 6:37 pm
    Hi to all paying parents,
    Family law/csa ,multi billion dollar racket ,destroying family's and creating the new "Stolen Generation" .
    I agree with you John from NT, we're living in a communist ditactorship instead of censorship we have political correctness b.s. Csa fact my wife just recently made me aware of. If your ex does not work or looses her job,than you pay 100% right. But if my wife looses her job I don't get a reduction, get the picture? Child support is a disguised form of ex spousal support . Also ever week 21 fathers commit suicide and 2 women are murdered every 3 days because of inhuman heartless ,evil family law/csa outcomes. This shit has been going on for years,yet no government bustard has done anything about it. I guess they are too busy worring about homosexuals who want to marry .
    Where is the "EQUAL" in family law/csa as expressed by the homosexual lobbies? . Advance Australia Fk fair!.
    By: CSA Sucks from QLD, Australia on June 5, 2015 @ 12:56 pm

    The only way to get results is to have senators elected who support us. We really only need 1 or 2 of these senators in parliament to voice our concern. Find an area where there are a high amount of child support paying people and bring them together to vote for said senators, and make sure they know how many votes they are getting from us.

    By: David from Queensland, Australia on June 5, 2015 @ 10:26 am
    combine that document and change.org petitions with yours and others letters we could put somewhere? and then send off to MPs etc?
    By: David from Queensland, Australia on June 4, 2015 @ 5:27 pm
    Erin and wilma let us know if the letters achieve anything. My idea was to do more of a big group effort which is why i started on the following:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EvSVolE_7HsknXRR3DM_Lge0JVCobyIjJWBEvBfzO1c/edit?pli=1

    The idea being to plan out everything, detail all the problems on both sides and maybe come up with some petitions on change.org and detailing those petitions in the document and then action that document with a plan of changes that are needed and who and how which i haven't fully thought out yet.
    By: wilma from Qld, Australia on June 4, 2015 @ 12:04 pm
    Hi Erin

    I will also send letters to the relevant Ministers of Parliament.

    I hope that good things will come out of this, especially for you and your family.

    Take Care.

    By: Erin from QLD, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 8:50 pm
    Thank you everyone for your support I had to hide in the loo as I didn't want my daughter to see how upset i am.

    I am tired and so is my husband if anything I can do for someone in power is to show there needs a change. After all this there is nothing we would miss here in Australia unfortunately!

    My daughter and I have decided we are going to write to the member of parliament and our prime minister (we know it won't do anything) but I refuse to be reduced to nothing while a women who does not live for her children gets everything!

    Anyone interested in writing a letter and emailing/posting to me in Queensland with issues I am happy to post with ours. I'm hoping numbers count
    By: Real CS info from QLD, Australia on June 4, 2015 @ 7:31 pm
    John, not sure if I amuse you or confuse you but - O do agree there needs to be a campaign on Child Support in highschools- for both boys and girls.

    For as many fathers who pau the higher assessmetn and mothers who pay (yes it happens) there are a lot who pay the minimum which leaves a lot with nothing -

    if there is a question about the rules happy to answer - Just dont want see another mum or dad hurt themselves or continue to see the impact it has on the new families -

    Good luck everyone - and yes be careful who you choose to have children with -
    By: Tim from wa/, uk on June 3, 2015 @ 11:02 am
    Erin
    Stay strong. It's hard for all of us against the csa debt collectors. Most debt collectors are accountable though. This one is only accountable to itself ie not accountable.
    By: John from NT, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 7:59 pm
    Erin

    Wise words mate and the reason behind my previous comment the the secondary school curriculum needs to include for Males a course on the Family Law act and what happens if they get their dick wet in the Stalinist State.

    I fear for my son who may unwittingly fall into the spiders trap as well. Oh Males are failing in school too now this is of the topic but related.....

    Keep up the good work Real CS this is good therapy for me at least without getting too emotional.

    I was however very fortunate in the emotional side of things to have an employer provided psychologist who incidentally was similarly afflicted by serparation - ha what comes around goes around.

    With you Erin and partner - stay strong!
    By: Wilma from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 7:41 pm
    Hi Erin
    I am just disgusted at the way CSA are treating you and your partner and your family. I feel for you. There is no fairness in the whole system.
    The Government should feel ashamed of themselves for allowing this trauma to exert itself on payers and their new families.
    It needs to be addressed as soon as possible.
    Try George Christensen's Office, MP in Mackay and write to Mr Abbott.
    Don't let CSA get the better of you. Hold your head high and know that there are decent honest people out there who really care.
    Wilma


    520. By: Real CS info from QLD, Australia on June 4, 2015 @ 6:51 pm
    Erin - I hope your husband does not harm himself. i know you did not ask for help- but I added it.

    I can see John and I may not agree many things but I respect everyones opinion-

    I also have one who is 13 but what you and I spend may the same or different -

    My partner did not know here her father - and her mum is less than desirable - My children do not have a grandfather or any connection to cousins Aunts uncles - So that also influences my personal views and not my understanding of CS. There are long term implications and I really dpo for sorry fo any dad or mum where the child they have is disconnected from them and or the relationship you describe is the situation- it is wrong.

    I have never agreed with the amount nor disagreed - more offering ways to deal with it so you do not get charged more than you should and not just you Erin but every parent.

    John is right the countries can be researched but as I said before is that debt worth never returning - Just make sure your husbands debt is at the least correct - again if his employer deducted it - you do not owe it.

    I do not want to see any father or mother or childs life taken. Thats why I try to raise other considerations here.
    By: Erin from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 7:10 pm
    REAL CS I was not asking you for information on where we can go or where my husband can work for no income in Australia I was asking anyone else who see's CSA for what it is.

    And frankly what do they expect a man to do when they are asking for $2000.00 a mth. In some way my husband and I agree our family would be better off if he did hurt himself as in my kids and I could live without stress and know the money that is earnt goes to the people it should.

    Say what you want but it is alimony point blank cause it does not cost $300pw to raise a 14yr old and yes I have one and is the same sex.

    Anyway CSA/government has brought my husband and his daughter closer NOT now the daughter "hates him" and my husband wants nothing to do with her and see's her just like her mother a thieving tart or gold digger!!

    All's men need to know is prostitutes are cheaper.. The end result is not worth it
    By: Real CS info from QLD, Australia on June 4, 2015 @ 6:15 pm
    Erin- You are correct in a past life I did work there - I do not now and if I did I could not comment here. It wouuld nto be appropriate.

    Yes I charge for people I help who contact me- but only if I can help as my time away from my kids costs.

    You have touched on multiple issues - if an employer deducted CS and did not give it to CSA and you can show this, they can take this off your bill.

    A back dated debt is from late tax lodgement or and incorrect estimate. CSA can negotiate the additional if you can take the time to speak with them

    The only reason they would send police is for a welfare check if you husband threatended harm to himself or someone else - despite the view here they do not want people harming themsleves - so please make sure your husband is ok.

    countries without resciprcoating jurisdiction are not great places to live. I will not provide information to people to avoid- to make sure all thier rights are addressed absolutely.

    My comment that made John laugh - Australia's system is the best in the world - overseas in some places they shame dads with faces on milk cartons who do not pay, charge you until the child is 21, the lock amount in no matter what income, they jail people, send bounty hunter style debt collectors- it is appauling.

    Can system improve - absolutely- the last law change however took 5 years end to end. I do not want to sit here and argue if it is good or bad - just what is correct under current rules- I do not agree with it all but that does not change it-

    My view is a basics card should be used - where by what it can be spent on is limited like they do with the welfare basics card - any left over when a child is 18 is refunded- will this happen probably not- so why talk about ifs-

    What I can tell you is - a payer from date of seperation for three years can take on extra work up to 30K gross income and have it disregarded from the assessment.

    Do not pay cash- record all agreements- Both parents can benefit from an agreement.

    If care is withheld call immediately and ask for interim care so the payment does not get lifeted for 14 weeks while you try to fix it - is that long enough probably not but that is all CSA is allowed to do.

    Will there ever be a perfect system no. One of my points is stop blaming the people who administer the rules- they have as much infulence as you. Some of them will bend over backwardas to help you.

    I again do not agree with care being withheld - In fact I think is abhorent - but I also think the children should be support by both parents -

    Erin if this debt is new - speak with CSA and complete and ALF if you cannot afford the additional $800- they will also remove penalties based on what you have said about your husband when the debt addressed- also note the tax refund will be taken some people who have not had debt do not always realise this.

    if you have a question about your rights - S107, S143 (getting money back for a kid that is not yours) CoA, NAPs, RMA, Form 5 whatever I can answer from the CSA's Child Support Guide - but no I will not tell you which country to avoid in- long term that will be worse I have seen the impact on people - the Child Support will go from finishing when the child is 18 to a debt forever and CSA can stop your passport if they think you will leave to avoid. Again not saying they should or should not- saying they can.
    By: John from NT, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 4:52 pm
    Erin

    I feel for you and your partner. Please forgive this once wonderful country for fucking your life up.

    Thomas Jefferson once said of the Law:
    The law is like a spiders web; it catches flies but wasps fly straight through.

    As far as breaking out and your FIFO question. There are a few Asian nations that are 'non-reciprocating' as defined in the relevant Legislation. Please have a look at the CSA site and download "A parents guide to Child Support" for further information. The non-reciprocating bit is about that country not needing to comply with a request from the Australian Govt for child support payments. In other words that country may choose to ignore the request from the Australian Govt. I am not going to tell you who they are on this forum.

    It is my intention once retired and left Australia to setup and advisory service to help people like yourself to espace the Stalinist State that Australia has become.

    Yes you have noted as well as I that Real CS may be a 'white anter' on this site. Certainly he appears to be helpful and has quite likely helped a few so this is good and I have repeatedly said that he is welcome too provide advice as much of it it factual and saves you the angst and psychological torment that comes from contact the emotionless drones at the
    CSA call centre.

    As I have said also several times the CSA contact staff provide at times quite misleading advice and Real CSA has pointed out the dangers of wrong advice. I could add a lot to this but won't - it would be counterproductive to other poor souls forced into weak positions. Yes this is a dangerous area to go down.

    In the CSA's favour; I would say that the Legislation is so complicated that no one except the 'bottom feeders' understand it.

    I wish you the best of luck but don't make the mistake of trying to get a better deal out of them - they are just doing their job and continue to get lambasted.

    The real villain is the law itself and here is where the pollies and 'bottom feeders' hold sway.

    Don't hold your breath or even entertain the idea that we live in a fair Democracy - we don't so get out while you can....

    Best of luck.


    By: Erin from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 6:33 pm
    Tried to edit but I meant to say $1200 a month
    By: Erin from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 5:55 pm
    Beyond angry CSA have no conscience at all bad enough we are paying $1200pw now I have received a letter saying they ar garnishing my husbands pay of $2000.00 a mth for one 14yr old child. What a load of shit yes my husband has a debt due to an employer he was with for 18yrs injuring him and then sacking him and then would not give us the amount needed for our assessment. Due to this after paying for yrs with no issues they back dated and CSA gave us the debt!!! Funny they do that to a man who always paid and never argued just bent over and took it ... Haha funny that as there doing that now but it feels more like rape!! Then they waste police time to send them to my residence to see where he is living (as previously stated we live apart to try and get by) they got told nothing I am so angry I walked in shaking and then have to compose myself for the 2 children I was cooking dinner for.
    Real CS you are for the system as you work/worked there and are now making money from it. I find it funny Real Cs you could make a real difference as you know the inner workings but all's you do is deflect and protect a disgusting system.
    Take to to other countries great as it would be scraped I could imagine the amount of women and children dead as the affected parent can't take it!

    So angry rant over but does anyone know what countries aren't affected by CSA payments as in don't work with Australia. Also does anyone know if my husband gets a job FIFO working abroad and doesn't pay Australian tax do we still have to pay???
    By: robin from nsw, australia on June 3, 2015 @ 3:44 pm
    Hi
    david u stated the gov gives the mother a 18 yr income stream ? i dont know how The mother or full carer of the kids gets cut of the pension when the youngest turns 8 and all family A&B gets cut at 13 so after that the carer is on the dole or she just has another kid again. CSA payments to the carer for the kid till they turn 18 is far I think but over the top payments hell no. Im a full time working mum raising 2 kids on 712 a week after rent and the bills leaves me around 62 a week for the kids My sperm doner of a x does not pay a thing and CSA wont help me "as i work " Just saying its the system that needs working on
    By: John from NT, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 11:58 am
    Members:

    To Real CSA your quote
    "The Australian system is the model the rest of the world is trying to copy because believe it or not it is the best one."

    Had me in stitches - I LOVE your sense of humour; keep up the good work mate.

    Today Australia then next day the rest of the world will fall into place - delusional at best.

    I could really see this legislation working in predominantly Catholic Philippines. There would be so many men in prison that the whole economy would collapse. Spare a thought for the parishoners too. OMG keep the dream alive as the man with the golden tongue once said.

    Dave etal re caring arrangements and % care:
    Many of my friends who have consciously avoided the need for FLC/CSA are in much better shape than us hapless souls. Yes indeed Real CSA etal have said that avoiding these agencies is the best way forward and it is but only if BOTH parents want the best outcome for both parents and their kids.

    It takes two to tango and my X is not interested; the default position is for her to suck me dry and that's why I refer to here as the Black Widow (BW) the female eats the male after consumation of the Act ha. This fact has ruined my life, my self esteem and any chance of recovery back to normal life - good one!

    Just one more thing: A friend similarly afflicted by CSA etc. Once said to me and this is worthy of attention:
    "It should be compulsory for all high school boys(part of the curriculum) too have a course on the marriage and defacto relationships and what 'the state' will do to them if it all goes wrong what are their rights (one) etc etc. At least then they can be informed before using the wrong 'head' to make life changing decisions.

    But today I say thanks Real CSA (the Court Jester) - you are the life of this site and I commend you for it - keep up the good work mate!

    Good luck to you all



    High school lessong in curricullum
    By: Erin from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 12:54 pm
    Thanks wilma we have been dealing with this for 7yrs so far we have 4yrs left. I feel for you son and empathise on how much it will affect his future as in if he meets someone gets married and try's to have a family. CSA cripple the person who doesn't have any care! And in saying that this may not be the fault of the person paying usually the father.
    David I agree it is crap we drive a second hand car but his ex is in a $50,000.00 car. We are in a little 3bd home yet the ex is in a near new 4bd. My husbands ex has 3 children with 3 different men none of whom have access she has a nice little side business! Yet hubby and I are having to live separately and they still take it. The assessment should not be of our Gross income we don't even get our gross income. The assessment should be taken of our net/take home pay.
    Oh and to CSA INFO I worked and didn't get maintanence but yes got a small amount of parenting payment from memory around 2-300 a fortnight yet my daughter had more provided for her then what she does now! As even though the girls are the same age my daughter is not considered to be worth the same amount!! Yes yes I know u will bang on with the percentage crap but let's be real.
    My husband has definitely been a victim of parental alienation and we spent over $30,000.00 in the court system to get consent orders yet they ignore them. The law should be if consent orders are in place and not followed the money stops! I bet it would change a lot of women's perspectives on keeping children away from the other parent.
    Also the children are 2 people's so it should be 50/50 money as in if it costs us 300pw it should cost the ex that. So if CSA say it costs $300pw then we should only be paying $150. I'm sorry I stand by the fact all's we are paying is alimony to a women who is damaging my husbands daughter.
    By: David from Queensland, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 12:27 pm
    50/50 how about the case the mum earns + her new husband or partner earns + my child support actually brings her less than half my income above my after tax income. equation is not fair. your scenario does sound like a good one but not always the case. and on maybe a more personal opinion i think after separation the initial period is bad but after several years we all should work to support our children and not live off the other parent for 18 years. some might disagree with my next opinion and i don't mind but i would say make child support up until school age then get your own job. i work hard get promotions, just to support my ex's renovations and house upgrades which i could never myself afford until maybe after i'm no longer financing my ex. i would actually be happier earning maybe a bit less and picking my kids up from school and spending that valuable time. again my point is we need something major here to happen. as it is apparent from all the comments on this site there are many people here telling their stories of how unfair it is. so even if australia in maybe a few peoples mind the best i would respectfully disagree or is it just best of the worst and still in need of major changes to make it somewhat fair? i've heard the US is pretty bad in these cases and without going into detail actually some stories i've heard of child support and dividing of assets in asia sounded pretty fair to me.
    also your comment "should the kids live at lower standard with her" in the case where 1 parent might not earn much. from my personal experience i would say maybe not quite as bad as you might think. maybe it is with the single stay at home mum if the child is younger than school age. though especially not fair in the scenario i described above. a 50/50 care arrangement with 1 parent would provide a huge amount of valuable time with both parents. maybe 1 parent might be able to afford the latest computers and educational tools and taking them overseas and tuition costs but this doesn't mean the time with the other lower income parent is a huge harm to the childs development. money doesn't solve all problems, but it does solve problems like house upgrades and renovations for the lower income mother.
    510. By: Real CS info from qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 12:14 pm
    Hi David. It's not rude. My point about parkinson was simply the cost validation and not agreement or disagreement.

    Parkinson review cam from dads saying the system was unfair. The new amounts were meant to be better but in reality custody is not legislated so nothing really changed.

    50/50 no payment. Just consider a couple where mum and dad choose her to be stay at home mum. They seperate she has no enploymeny and dad does. She gets work but a lot less income than dad should the kids live at lower standard with her? Or mum earns more should dad not be able to provide in same way. This is what the current formula considers. I am not agreeing or disagreeing just adding the basis.

    The Australian system is the model the rest of the world is trying to copy because believe it or not it is the best one.

    For every father suffering alienation there is another who walked away and left his kids in poverty for every mum who stops access for money win another begs for the kids dad to see them.

    I agree we should always try to make the system better. Just consider if mum or dad do the wrong thing should the kids suffer more.

    A father should not loose his kids. A parent who uses CS as their income plan would be very short sighted also
    By: David from Queensland, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 11:22 am
    Real CS info several of your last statements to me don't sound quite fair and i'll try to not be rude just based on my personal experience. The comment about the "parkinson review" to me makes me feel like just giving up on fighting on changing the system. For me i earn more than double my ex though she owns a house more than double mine and owns several cars and does house renovations. If as you say people who earn more spend more on their children then i think this has nothing to do with child support and separated parents. At a time when i had more access to the children i was personally spending thousands on extra curricular activities but right now i'm not and the mother spends my child support on her renovations and house investments and the children loose out on a positive education and a positive time with their father. Even if i have 50% care i still have to pay quite a large amount so your comment about "If we get custody and contact right than I think CS will not be an issue" i also think is not quite fair. Also as i've said before if the government offers an 18 year income stream to a mother if she fights then this is quite tempting. My personal experience with parental alienation and the courts have been quite stressful with no results. To me something major needs to happen such as:
    -changes to the equation
    -default laws providing 50/50 and not having to pay money on solicitors or courts as it's a default law
    -no child support with 50/50
    this whole CSA thing just provides a whole industry of child abuse, parental alienation, solicitors, stress. Money better off spent on the children.
    i do like your statement "removal of a mum or dad is not good for the kids" but the sad reality is the current system is supporting the removal by offering free money to use however they want to whoever wins. an industry of solicitors and overly complex thousand page rule books which to me often makes no sense at all.
    By: Real CS info from qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 8:33 am
    Hi Wilma and Erin,

    My hat goes off to all people and I can address some.of your points.

    First the alleged productivity payments do not exist. The people you speak to on the phone get a standard wage no bonus, productivity or extra payment. In the last agreement less than 1 % per annum was offered as wage growth.

    Fathers who pay CS work at CSA.

    A big point is the comment they take all teh wage this is nit true. For a person who has debt so they have not paid there payment tha additional is taken, ans if that person has not taken the time to contact CSA it may be an amount that is not aligned with their income at the time. CSA cannot collect less than the assessed amount they do not have that discretion.

    Regarding $300 per week to raise the child. The costs since 2008 are based on the parkinson review and 3 studies were conducted based on what Australians spent on children according to their gross incomes. It is not the cost of a 13 yr old or 6 yr old it is what people with x income spend and thats the assessed cost now.

    Erin and Wilma you should have got support from that was reasonable because like you they choose to create and or bring a child into this world why should one parent and the community be left with the burden.

    There are also mums who pay and feel the same ways dads do. I have three children who I am responsible for and this is not a job I can just walk away from

    A really important thing is child support can be done via agreement, collected privately where both people as it only takes one to make it hard, can look atvthe child and do the right thing.

    A rigid payment is not best but is used when the parents cannot do it the best way.

    We need more people to recognise the removal of a mum or dad is not good for the kids. If we get custody and contact right than I think CS will not be an issue.
    By: Wilma from Qld, Australia on June 3, 2015 @ 7:18 am
    Hi Erin

    My heart goes out to you and your partner. It just isn't right. I can only but imagine the sleepless nights you have had worrying about the payments to child support and how it affects your lives. It's a total disgrace that a Government Agency has such power to wield an invisible sword over the payers' lives.

    I have lived through the CSA tactics for many years, firstly myself as a single mum and, like you, I worked full-time to keep my children. I brought them into this world because I loved them.

    For the past 15 years one of my sons has been a payer of child support for what I would call "a one night stand". At times, he hasn't had enough left of his wages to cover buying a pair of work boots after child support has taken most of what he worked hard for. The harder he works, the more the CSA take from him. The whole scenario is a total disgrace.

    Some of the payers of CSA cannot even afford to go to a doctor and that puts to bed all the theories that men are healthier than women depending on how the studies are done.

    I wonder why the United Nations don't step in as it is against human rights in so many ways.

    As I see it, I wonder why the CSA workers get bonuses for productivity. Perhaps "Real CS info" can explain it to me so that I can understand.

    And what about the young male children growing up in the full knowledge that if they make one single mistake, their lives are going to be spent paying child support for at least 18 years. Neither wonder some children get depressed.

    The Federal Government and the Queensland State Government have a Minister for Women, so why isn't there a Minister for Men? There should be, all things being supposed equal.

    And finally, why does the newspapers not carry the true stories of child support. It appears very obvious to me that the newspapers are curtailed in what they are allowed to publish, especially in regard to child support, unless of course, it has to do with the "deadbeat dad" theory.
    By: Erin from Qld, Australia on June 2, 2015 @ 5:46 pm
    Good to read some of the views and believe there spot on my husband and I are with you John from N.T we would love to leave the country but don't know which ones Australia doesn't work with.. As in if you go to England they can still get u to pay. It is a bullshit system and really is just keeping the ex in the living she was use too. Wait only better as my husband is earning more! Sadly my husband had to say he was going to commit suicide for them to back of and except the $1200 a mth we are paying. Mind you we are paying double expenses as we are now living separately due to there being no work for us to survive on where we are!!! The ex has poisoned his daughter against him to the point were they don't even speak and my husbands daughter called to tell him she hated him when we tried to enforce the legal consent order!! What's the point..
    They should have to prove where the money is going because for us schooling does not come into it as stated in the consent orders we don't have to pay yet we are up too $1200mth. I have the same aged daughter and know she does not cost $300 per week. Oh and they say this is what is costs to raise that child well then all the single mothers who get next to nothing should get the same from the government. And before anyone bangs on yes I was a single mum and worked 40hrs a wk and had 100hrs of child care allocated I barely saw my child.

    IF A PARENT CAN NOT RAISE THE CHILD THEN THEY SHOULDNT HAVE IT! Simple
    By: Real CS info from qld, Australia on June 2, 2015 @ 4:23 pm
    Just a note. I need to say bad information is the worst thing for CSA you can get.

    S107 is an order you apply for if you are not the parent and there is a case against you. Generally you would have or be getting a DNA test to support this. It delays nothing if it fails you still have the bill from the day the case began.

    Running away will give other issues and I am not here to tell anyone they should not but consider that if you flee Australia the CS debt may still be accruing and if you ever return you can be chased. This gives the ex parter complete power over influencing the rest of your life. Think about all the things here at home you miss lime friends or family illness.

    Learn about child support so what you are assessed is aligned with the law. If you think the law needs changing that is not a complaint to CSA but to federal government.

    More good dads do need to fight for their custody rights or more good dads will loose them. Many issues here over custody but CSA has zero powers around this and they seem to be the focus of the fall out.

    A big piece of information here was touched on, a couple are ammocable to CS or custody issues. There is no need to minmise income for that just takes two people to be ammicable. Approximately 50% of all CS cases are this way.

    Just takes one of the two to make situation bad. Then the government intervene through collection to prevent all others footing the bill.

    Are the amounts high or low, both sides argue this. Will more law changes stop avoiders and custody with holders? I doubt it but agree increased parental rights is a great start.
    By: mark from wa, australia on June 2, 2015 @ 4:05 pm
    Byron,
    I appreciate your advice. However, leaving is not always the option because the problem follows you in your mind no matter where you go because you never really resolved especially if the kids are never to be in your possession. And the problem can manifest itself into other problems in trying to tell you that it still exists and well alive. So my option is to fight in any reasonable way and and get access to the child. I know it won't be easy. CSA sucks, what's that s form?
    By: CSA Sucks from QLD, Australia on June 2, 2015 @ 3:23 pm
    Has anybody had experience using an S107 as a delaying tactic? Has it worked? How long have you been able to delay CSA?
    By: Bryon from QLD, Australia on June 2, 2015 @ 12:47 pm
    John, i used to live in NT. High(er) wages, high cost of living, high maintenance.

    I mved down south for less income, lower cost of living, lower maintenance payments and greater quality of life!!

    Can you become a contractor with your work? You can control the maintenance cost entirely if you can. My brother works long hours / earns $400k per year but is out of the csa system. He has an amicable relationship with his ex and pays her whatever she needs. About $2k per month. His taxable income is only $30k. So if he was in the csa system his liability would be minimal. And no doubt strained relations. All because he is self employed so can adjust income as required.

    I agree with a comment earlier - those out of the csa system are happy!!
    By: John from NT, Australia on June 2, 2015 @ 10:27 am
    Mark, Tim Micheal Dave etal.

    You guys are struggling with a system that treats you with disdain and contempt. Nothing you can do to change this. It's been that way for years. Slay the monster by carefully gathering knowledge of 'the beast'. Follow the path of enlightenment as I am.

    Leave the country and start a new life.

    It's the only defensible action that a rational parent can do.

    Will they change the laws (FLC) etc. if thousands of payers leave? Maybe maybe not but no longer your problem.

    You only live once (YOLO).

    Best of luck whatever you choose.
    500. By: Tim from wa/, uk on June 1, 2015 @ 4:19 pm
    ...and the minister doesn't want to know about it! !!
    By: Mark from wa, australia on June 2, 2015 @ 12:21 am
    Michael,
    It's terrible. It's extortion made legal.
    Relationships don't work and kids get born under diverse
    circumstances that some of the stories are too provate share. What pains me is that they don't care about truth.
    In psychology, there is this thing called "compound association". because the recipient rang the CSA to arrange for "extortion", that their point of lies to CSA.
    CSA are not supposed to believe the lies but they do.
    They already compoundly associate the person requesting "extortion" as good and the payee, bad. It's all on the wall when they ring you to hold you hostage for the money.
    They heard my side of story which I wasted ample time telling them. But it was never considered at all. I'm the culprit and I get treated as one each time I get a call from them demanding more and more ransom.

    By: Michael from Wa, Australia on June 1, 2015 @ 9:32 pm
    Mark I know your dilemma my ex keeps going for change of care and kept loosing. This time she went to ssat and although my evidence was the exact same that csa finally decide to go with my side ( the truth) she added trumped up days got her mother to issue a "I believe" statement and won again. They saw added her a back payment of $5 k although they did not take into consideration the fact I had to pay 100% rate for 6 months whilst fighting csa so essentially they're double dipping on the same 6 months I'd already paid! Then to top it off bloody CSA will not negotiate any payment plan A**holes. Never mind I have a new family to support and Always pay the ex this extortion they hold over us fathers!
    By: Dave from Nt, Australia on June 1, 2015 @ 4:32 pm
    The Only thing missing from the CSA is there gestapo uniform. They are the most powerful government department in Australia . They are not about helping the kids , they are all about implementing their formulas onto us with no regard for the welfare of the family unit. They take the woman's word as gospel and if you want to fight the decision , you better have all the prove you can. Seriously , who can go through life documenting every little detail , I cant and I wont!!!!
    So she can have the kids 100%, I will not have them over night , they can come around during the day , bring your own food!!!
    After giving her $6000 top up she went to Europe on a holiday while my kids don't get to go on school trips, cause she has no money!!!!
    CSA don't care about how she spends the money, but they care a lot about getting it off us, actually that's all they do .
    Dissolve the agency, they are not needed . Maybe it will keep family together a bit more if they weren't around.
    By: Mark from Wa, Australia on June 1, 2015 @ 1:49 pm
    the more men discuss issues in forumns only, the less the public sector hears our pain and concerns. Why not stage a day demonstrate against some of these bullish laws? I had a call the other day from DHS saying the current arrangement have with them for the last 5 months to pay off what I am owing is too low when compared to my capacity. I said to them nothing has changed on my side of things since we made this arrangement 5 months ago. Certainly not my income too. So why was this arrangement acceptable 5 months ago and it is not acceptable now under the same conditions? Their response was not clear and was still capacity. I said again and again that my capacity has not changed and you also know that. As a matter of fact my capacity is lower now because we had an agreement 5 months ago that I have honored all this time. Since then I have moved on and budgeted on other aspects of my life knowing the child support part is well and truly covered. My responsibilities are higher now than 5 months ago hence my capacity being lower now that 5 months ago. I had to speak to a senior person who has since proposed to listen to recorded discussion 5 months back. And I have also requested a copy of that audio too. It's just unfair considering how they do not even check where the money goes on the receipient end and also they do not check with her aggressively like they chase up money from men whether she is able to work and earn more or not. It's very unfair. Men paying child support are more depressed.
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