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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Your right my x wont pay either ( just under 20k in back payments ) same here csa told me they cant make him pay as he has no income to pay with but he has a morgage business and 2 cars all on no income and I quote " why dont you just get a job and stop asking " is their responce when I ask about it so now I dont ask them for there help btw I do have a job and work hard to keep a roof over my kids heads.Just wondering if csa work at all or just palm everything off and cant b f*** with helping any1 ?
Apparently all you have to do is change jobs regularly, as it takes up to three months for CSA to confirm with employer and arrange salary deductions.
CSA say they can't 'force' a parent to pay if they don't want to.
Avoid lodging a tax return, work for cash... I'd be happy for the payer to direct where the money Is spent- school fees, books and uniform, rather than be solely responsible.
I too continued to pay the mortgage when we split. When we eventually sold she gets $200k & I get $50k plus a $15k cc debt and an old car (she gets the new one)! The she goes and buys a news house. I'm soon after unemployed, unable to get the dole and borrowing $$$ off my parents just to survive, yet I STILL have to pay child support! WTF!?
I've since manged to turn things around, but I have debts north of $250k and very little in the way of assets. Sure I eat good money (not great, by more than my ex) and she's cnvnced I'm rich? I'm not the one with a $500k house that only has a $250k mortgage. The woman even had the nerve to write a 'sob letter' to both myself and my parents crying for money (it was virtually the same letter) because it was too hard to pay for my children's prgate school fees (a school SHE chose, with no input from me). This is the same woman that just bought a brand new iPhone outright (last one went swimming) and a brand new $35k car blew up due to being too cheep and put standard ULP in it (VW Golf...Premium only ppl).
So yes, in many cases the real problem between ex's is money. That's all mine cares about. She couldn't care less if my new daughter lived in poverty! Yes I have 2 boys to my ex, and a beautiful daughter to my new wife (who apparently is the cause for my first marriage break down, which is strange as I met her > 12 months after I'd left my ex).
I would hazard a guess that most parents who are a victim of the absurdity of the CSA are simply trying to rebuild their lives from nothing. That's EXACTLY where I started. I'm a better person now than I was with my ex. I just want room to breath and room to try to be the best Dad I can be to ALL of my children.
THAT is what all of this is about. By making it about money, it turns people into to evil arseholes...
My ex and the mother of the children works full time and her new busband also works full time. They own 2 cars, 1 cheap like mine and the other they bought brand new around $20k i think. They were living in a very nice $300k town house and i know living very comfortably. They have since sold that town house and purchased a new $430k house and just recently have undergone renovations to it. Their combined income including my child support means they are extremely well off.
Without setting some upper limit for child support this misuse of of my money that CSA forcefully hand over to an ex (not the child) will never end.
We have more recently in the past year due to financial reasons had to move out to an even cheaper share place just so i can save some money for a while and rent out my town house. Since the rental was not paying the cost of the house i had to negative gear it. And with negative gearing i found that child support just add it back so you have to pay the full income even though you had a loss. I think their reasoning is that it's investment and should go up in value but it has not and i have since found cracks in the building which has devalued the property and so struggling to know how to get rid of my town house.
One consequence of money being involved is that parents will fight each other for custody even to the extreme point of false allegations. In my case these included false police reports of which i have solid video evidence and i have also found the courts tell me they do not want to look at the video evidence.
And me, just like from what i've read many other below say, i was nice with money at the start. I let my ex live in the house we had purchased together and i continued paying the mortgage for quite a while. I also purchased a car for her since she asked for an upgrade to the car and she promised to pay it back. Since that promise she did but she claimed depreciation so didn't pay the full amount. If i knew all this time how much she would fight and lie i would never have given her all i had. At least i come out knowing i did what was right but then to be kicked in the face out of being nice is not good. And then to top it off from the CSA on one occasion for me being late a 2nd time in payments and me calling them up to tell them and then threatened by the CSA that they would take funds from my employer is another kick in the face.
CSA say it's for the children's benefit but it is not. To actually benefit the children and to not make the parents crazy i think something major needs to happen with child support. Some things i think that need to change:
-setting an upper limit
-parents maybe having to prove how money is spent or maybe rather the paying parent instead buying those items for the children as their payment instead
Not all would agree with my last point but i think the upper limit should be small unless it's proved necessary. My case clearly shows the money i spend has no benefit to the child but simply allows for huge house upgrades.
I am here to fight child support, but I need help from everyone. I want to know what each and everyone of you are going through, if I can put it into statistics it will give us a case to put forward. I work full time and I am building a house and I have a family and I have passion. I studied clinical research and project management, so please contact me and tell me your story.
The CSA...bunch of d!cks. The whole lot of them couldn't give a rats about the people involve. So long as their precious equations are calculated and money goes from one hand to the other their happy. They don't care if one of their decisions lead to bankruptcy of one party or the mental breakdown of the other. They are simple accountants moving money around.
These sh!theads (yes I loath the CSA) need to be held accountable for their actions. How many murder-suicides, mental breakdown, child abudtions, or any other horrific events can be contributed to these parasites?
The calculations these agents use need to include more life factors to account for our complex modern world. They need to really understand the true impact of their decisions and held accountable. They also need to actually consider the children involved! That should be their primary focus!
Asking a question as simple as: "If I force this parent to pay $x, what impact will that really have? Will they be unable to pay bills? May that push their finances beyond breaking? What about other children? Would this action drive them over the edge towards mental breakdown, loss of job, drive them to a criminal act, or possible suicide?"
They won't because they just don't care. They are pencil-pushes, simply following policy & process.
They try to help everyone, but end up helping no-one.
In my case, my narcissistic X uses the CSA to do her dirty work and continuously try's to game the system to screw me for more money. Every time a have a win, she changes tack and tries again! I'm like 99% of other Dad's out trying to do the right thing. Where's our support? Why isn't there someone helping us with our bitter & twisted X's (mine was the one having the affairs, yet I'm the bad guy? Got nothing when we split and forced to pay $'000's that I can just afford and she wants MORE)!
And ppl wonder why guys (and more girls) are put in this I winnable position because we're viewed as the arseholes before we even open our mouths!
Ok, thanks for the vent. It won't change anything, but at least I can share...
Yes I had dealings with Child Support Help Australia (CSHA) late last year. Be careful, they are a referral service. In other words they advise you (though they are not licenced legals/parasites) then hand on any legal preparation (deeds/Binding Child Support Agreements...) to the legals under contract to then. They are based in Adelaide and if your case is compelling and straight forward I would recommend then. Be very careful not to go in too deep with them otherwise you could end up paying out over 5K before you know it.
Remember David at the end of the day. They are legals (parasites) making a living out of the Family Law ACT and good on them for helping themselves to your wallet :-)
btw anyone heard of csha.com.au? they contacted me after i filled in a form saying they might be able to help though i hadn't heard of them before.
Sorry to hear about what your x is putting you throu
I have never stoped my kids from seeing their dad its their choise as they are his kids but he made it clear he didnt want more than he asked for and he made his choise to put the new wife first in his life and the kids second. Both my kids ( 13 and 7 ) under stand what has happened I have never hid this from them and they do ask questions about what happened
However, I notified them I was finishing work on the 19th of December in an email, they ignored it as they have said since that we "must" speak to you at the time before they will cancel the monthly obligation amount when you have no income..guess what, I now owe for January at the rate I was being raped for last year.. hmm ah, nothing to worry about.
Mother.. bloody Fu*$ers...
Now my income tax is completed for last year, guess what??, I have to go through the process/es of trying to get a review of the amount I was charged from May until last week to be re calculated down to where it should have been and get that offset against this years obligation or the amount owing.. what do you rate my chances??? big fat ZERO is the answer.. but I will have a go, you have to.
My ex husband has taken my 3 kids and thrown me out of my house with nothing but the shirt on my back. I have no choice but to pay child support that he claimed 2 days after doing this. I would give the world to raise my children 95% of the time and yes I do know how hard this is. Having your kids makes you one of the lucky ones most of the dads and some of us mums are just thrown away like pieces of rubbish and can't access our kids because the law gives our ex the right to take the kids and dictate when, how and where we can see them. Its not greener on the other side, trust me, the court process is extensively long winded and yes the kids are left to suffer without one of their parents. Your ex sounds like he has given up, but you shouldn't keep trying to let your kids see him no matter what, they need you both and please think of us who long for nothing else but to see our kids and be an active part of their lives but can't because the other parent is completely selfish. Each of our situations is unique as is yours. Hopefully your ex will come on board soon.
Im a mum who has care and control 95% x has 5% ( he gave it to me in court didnt want kids as upset the new wife to much )I had to return to work when my youngest was 8 weeks old as the x left and ( tah was 7 yrs ago ) and he still wont support kids. A lot of mums do go back to work you try raising kids on 795 a fornight all the center link papment I could get not easy
If she has returned to work how is she maintaining the care level..courts now do try to award 50/50 where they can
Robin is only partly correct. You cannot ask for court costs to be considered agai st what you pay for chd support.
For the increase in costs as the ex is withholding care CAN happen. The care is measured based on actual care, and over the next 12mths for aban ongoing care pattern. So if she calls and says I am keeping kids she can apply. Robi is correct that CSA may ask for evidence if you say that change has not occurred however if it has she will be able to get evidence easily and this is not the correct approach.
what you can do if she is withholding care is once you have taken steps to get your care back i.e. mediation or court application you can apply for unterim care decision from the date the care pattern cha ged and for up to 14 weeks. So if yoy take 6 weeks to take steps then you get 8 weeks etc.
CSA must otherwise charge based on actual care and has no choice in this.. hope this helps.
I have a long story, but I will try to condense it. My ex ended our marriage in 2012. I hadn't done anything specifically wrong ie: no affairs, no gambling, drugs, alchol, etc. Just normal. I effectively got evicted from my house, my kids were poisoned against me, my future now uncertain. The ex hid assets in clear view mainly due to her business arrangements. She got the lions share of settlement plus a loading for one child under 18. I got screwed after 21 years supporting the family. The ex tried to destroy me. Contacted my employer, made threats through her thuggish older children (from a previous marriage), wrote character assassinating emails to friends and relatives etc,.. I moved to the uk as my siblings were there and had little close support base left and my kids won't talk to me. I have no income and I'm staying with family. Now the CSA want proof that I am not employed even though I have given them my bank details which should prove that. I am accruing a debt based on my Oz income even though I'm not even there!! They simply won't listen and say the onus is on me to provide proof. They appear to be a law unto themselves in the true sense, with no independent ombudsman to ask for recourse. They are judge and jury it seems. It is no wonder that you hear tragic tales of fathers and their children in the press, because the CSA is simply another weapon the ex-wife can use against the children's father she has discarded. Tim
No u cant ask csa or take her to court for loss of anything the courts will agree with her and state it will put her in distress ( money wise ) plus its not worth it anyway will cost you to much
Anyway csa can not up your payments just because she says you didnt have the kids. She needs to and you can ask csa for this has to prove that you didnt have the kids plus it has to be in writing as well BUT you can put in a order throu the family law courts in sydney stating she breached the orders and the courts will make her hand over the kids. Again will cost but your lawyer should be able to help
My ex has breached our Care Plan Order by withholding my children (for five weeks this time) - two days later the CSA rang me to tell me they were aware of the change to my circumstances and flagged their intention to re-assess my situation. So, she breaks the Order then tries to profit from it - not bad!
My question is this - can I apply through the CSA for re-imbrusement of costs associated with taking her to court (contravention application)? My solicitor seems to think it might be worth asking the question, but wanted to asked someone less biased - can anyone out there help?
I phoned them and they got my number off the re-entry card??
I told them they are not to have my phone number and they have breached my privacy!
They said no they haven't I said yes they have I asked for my number to be removed from my file. This jumped up person who could not make it through uni refused. I told him no worries I'll have it removed today.
I hung up and phoned back immeditetly. The new guy on the other end at the call in centre so no problem He had just removed it.
The guy that phoned me had been told before and he knew it that CSA is not to phone me not ever because thy call in their business hours not mine. They phone about stupid things at stupid times for me and I have to keep an eye on my fatigue management.
Anyway that's my gripe but at least I had a win albeit small..
We just need to draw attention from willing politicians who wants to listen and present these issues. I know it's farfetched but if we can get people like that senator who raised that child support case few months back then I'm sure we'll get some traction to our cause.
We all need to come together...I don't no if this means getting petitions started and taking them to the local mp's office or not. But until we try something there will never be a change to our situations...
I'm over struggling, my wife's over it, thankfully my new family is to young to no any better and be psychologically affected by it. It's just crap I can't give my family a life.
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them.
To all the dads out there who support their kids a big hands up I think.
The best way to not pay csa is how my x husband gets away with it is. He signed all his assects over to his new wife eg cars house and bussiness plus he put all his bank accounts in her name just over 17k he owes his kids BUT as he ownes nothing as csa keep telling me he doesnt have to pay a thing to my kids.So Im left with raising 2 kids working 3 jobs just to pay the bills. My story so yer
1) FOI Request - read the news of another failed request (by a Commonwelath Senator)in my post of 22/12 (below)
I am afraid if the CSA has somthing to hide (i.e. their incompetance) you have got bucklies!
2) Child Support Calculator:
This calculator available form their website is very good and from my experience accurate too with 1 or 2%
of actuals they (CSA) calculate.
The assumptions for its accuracy though are:
Both your and the 'other parent's income (that they declare to the ATO) is known.
Of course many of you state that there are other incomes from investments etc. well
of course these figures cannot be entered into the calculator. You could use the calculator though
as a test of their 'hidden income' to ask that 'what if' question.
Select “Child Support” – “Calculate – estimate payments and care”
3) Care %
Basically formula assessment works its magic no secrets here, and you can find details on their site in the
form af a downloadable PDF. If you have 0% care (as I do) all of your share of child care funds automatically
is credited to the other parent who gets to spend it how they like - no issues with that. Its the result
of crap laws. Suck it in or leave the country - as has been suggested by myself and a few other brave souls.
Hope this helps and good luck because you will need it. Crap laws are crap laws. Its the pollies that
can change this. Although we don't actually live in a democracy - it just appears like one.
Can I ask why you end up paying so much more per week now that your daughter turned 18?
Sounds awful to have experienced so much financial agony in your situation but I hope it all goes well for you.
Cheers and I hope you make it mate.
I'm a divorced dad seeking advice. I have 2 girls aged 6 and 8 who I don't get a chance to see anymore. I've learnt to accept this now as it'd inevitably come to this anyway as I'd be raising my own family with my current partner and my ex with hers.
However since I have 0% nights in care, I pay the maximum based off CSA's calculations. During the past 2 years however, I've had small pay increases which really affects our financial stability because the payments jump by 30-50% every time this happens. With planning for a baby in mind next year, and an upcoming mortgage I'll need to budget for (had to depend on my parents for the full 20% deposit), minus the bills, food and travel costs...i'm left with pretty much no savings.
My partner was planning to stay at home and look after our baby for at least 6-12 months(this is her first marriage and child) so we wanted to make this period a special bonding time for her as a mother. But at this rate, and after doing CSA calculations, having a child doesn't really reduce the payments to my ex so I'm seriously stressed about how we can afford this without both of us working full time.
I've tried talking to my ex to arrange payments privately, but she refuses to budge and says CSA calculations were intended that way for a reason...and after I explained that the weekly payments are well more than enough to cover for my 2 girl's expenses and asked her to reduce the amount so I can sustain my own situation, she uses the excuse that it's their "right" to that money because I'm the father on their birth certificates.
My ex has an investment property which she rents out privately and doesnt disclose this income to the ATO. She's also bought a new car and new mortgage with her bf...I'm pretty sure most of my child support goes towards "her" expenses rather than the girls. All the while my partner and I will be struggling to get by without much support - stressing about the impact if we do decide to have a baby next year.
Anyone who's been in my situation can you offer some advice?
Have you managed to get by and have a comfortable lifestyle whilst raising your new family and pay the mortgage etc. in conjunction to the ongoing CSA payments? Any financial tips are welcomed.
What other options do I have? e.g. salary sacrifice to reduce my taxable income, leaving the country, stay at home dad while partner works etc.
This is already taking a toll on me psychologically...I get so stressed every time just thinking about this.
Appreciate if you can help!
Yes I sympathise with your situation. It always seems so hopeless and you are alone fighting a big Cwlth Govt Agency.
The best advice I can say is to consult your local shire Library for information on Legal aid. Often they provide a free service for those on low income (not you). You may be able to obtain legal advice from a quasi State Govt legal aid such as here in the NT I use:
At the end of the day you will need leagal advice and like me you cannot affort to pay for it. The CSA is filled with unsucessful Lawyers and they in conjunction with the Family Law Courts make it expensive for us to achieve anything near a fair go! The only way forward is to engage (legals = parasites) against other legals - unfortunatly. I have spent several thousand so far but it has been worth it becasue I will
be leaving this country shortly forever. This is unfortunate for me and my children but of course the CSA/FLC is not really aabout YOU or your Kiddies.
Good luck Sam
I accrued a debt to CSA and started paying it back, only for interest and fees to increase it to some ridiculous amount! I am at a loss as what to do because according to CSA, with my income I should be paying $1000 a fortnight.
I tried to explain that I have bills (rent, car, living expenses) but they didn't care. They told me to move to a cheaper area & get rid of my bills. ?????
I also know for a fact that he is not giving any money to our child, who is almost 16. Can anyone please tell myle that since when does a16yo go through $800 a month????
I can't afford a lawyer because of how much CS is taken out of wage. So my experience with them is nothing but negative.
Question is as any liar can point out there must be a hidden agenda.
I'm not saying that the people that work there are liars.
What I am saying is that they are much in the dark as we are.
There must be a handful or so people that really know what's going on over there and what the main purpose of the agency really is.
For some reason I believe there to be a deep moral issue at hand.
How this authority imposes this is always a different story.
Why can't any two stories be the same baffles me.
Sometimes I like to compare CSA to Centrelink.
Both being government agencies ect ect.
Centre link makes sense because any 2 stories are the same.
Eg. Someone on unemployment will receive the same as another on unemployment. Makes sense...right.
Did it matter if u earn $100k before becoming unemployed, so therefore must get more welfare to support ur life style. No.
In my eyes...an adult is an adult, as a child is a child.
But there a children out there that receive the min in support and some a greater amount.
Sorry, going back to the hidden agenda...
Is the government empowering the wives of high wage earners to leave the family and take the children.
In my opinion, yes, because the government is running a business.
Michelle unfortunately even when u give birth it wil be around $10 maybe $15 aloud for ur new Bourne!! It's shit I have been through it but ur husband can claim under hardship just need to ask for the forms from CSA.
No csa can not ask you or make you pay anything for your hubbys bill
As its his bill and his kids NOT your bill or kids they have no right to ask you to pay it. If they try to make you pay just tell them you need to speak to your lawyer first and that will shut them up
hope this helps
Csa are wrong it states in their own hand book once a child is earning their own way ( start paying tax and earning a living for them selves ) whatever you no longer have to support them after they turn 18 but if you owe any back payments you will still have to pay it( but the mother can still clain if the kids are at full time study and only full time study till they turn 26 )
I feel for all of you as i know how hard it gets with little or no help.
Get legal advice ASAP. I am a mum and my ex took my kids I am going to court to get them back and the advice I've had is that if one parent deliberately stops the kids from seeing the other it doesn't go down well in the courts. Your kids have a right to know both their parents. With child support I feel your pain I was left with nothing but the shirt on my back and apparently it costs in excess of $400 per week to raise my kids, take it that this is my half to raise them if my ex also pays his half this equates to $800 per week to raise 3 kids. It's wrong, I am not paying half their upbringing cost but all of them while he enjoys life. Don't get me wrong I will always support my kids financially but it's wrong that I have to support my ex lifestyle as well.
I think you should ask about claiming hardship as you can't be expected to pay more than you earn. You can also appeal the assessment and I would ask about time frames as well I think there is a timeframe on how far back they can make a new assessment from along with your ex has to appeal an assessment within a certain timeframe I think it's 3 weeks from the notification date, which means how can your arrears be back dated so far. Ask questions! And look up the 10 rules about income assessment. If you google help/advice about your rights with cs there are organisations that know the ins and outs particularly for dads as it's more often men who cop this unfair system.
It's great to see the biggest Cwth dept spending taxpayers money to preotect their butt!
Full Article here: http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/department-of-human-services-spends-500000-on-legal-fees-fighting-6000-child-support-dispute-20141221-12agd6.html
....Independent Senator Nick Xenophon says the case is a "scandalous waste of taxpayers' money … to protect the butt of the department".
Now the department, which runs the Child Support Agency and Centrelink, has hired more high-end lawyers to try to block the release of information on its own conduct in the matter, exposing taxpayers to up to a million dollars in legal and other costs.
Child Support Agency bosses have spent the money despite knowing, since August 2011, that their public servants broke the law in the man's case and were on shaky legal ground from the beginning of the dispute.
DHS has been ordered by the government's information watchdog to hand over a briefing it prepared for its minister, along with other documents, but the department has hired top-end lawyers Clayton Utz to fight the decision of the Australian Privacy Commissioner.
Do you know more? Send your confidential tips to email@example.com................
So there you go pick your fights wisely. Or leave the country as I am doing.