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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Csa states that until a child becomes self supporting eg has a job own income or starts to pay tax then the paying parent is no longer required to pay child support UNLESS that child is still in full time study Or the paying parent has a debt with CSA then he will still have to pay until debt is cleared with them
Surely she is NOW independent / emancipated
He has never been allowed access to the kids , he has no money to go to court all the time, the end results speak for themselves, his little girl is pregnant. I think it's ridiculous to expect him to remain responsible for a child that has a child.
He reckons child support has told him he has to pay until she is eighteen.. really ?? is that true?
I cannot figure out why the family court of injustice continue to award mothers custody over the fathers, even when it is proven the father is a better parent and can supply the child with a better home environment.
The only reasoning I come up with is that judges are still living in the past where dad went to work and supported the family financially and mum stayed at home and gave the emotional support.
Guess what, times have changed, most couple have to work now to pay off a house, there are stay at home dads, fathers are now more invested in their children on all levels.
And, most of all as I see it. Men give life to children, it is OUR sperm that starts the spark of life, otherwise every month that potential life is just flushed away, biological fact.
I hear it all the time from women "my child" it's not your child b@&ch it's ours. Your were just the incubator and suffer from golden uterus syndrome. Www.genderratic.net
I do find the system unfair, but you have to fight it. I;ve spent countless hours dealing with them on lunchbreaks when it's the only chance I can talk. I've had them knock back COA's a bunch of times, but I didn't give up. It was a lot of money, so it was worth fighting. There's very little to support men through the mental and financial hardship that comes with separation/divorce - not to mention the worry about kids growing up without their dads, and with the alienation that comes with it.
Maybe it's time the corporate world started putting some money back into men's services; training and support programs; helping them understand the systems so they get some support.
you made me laugh anyway. ask mr spellcast to rid Australia of a theif called CSA
Not only did the CSA use my 2015 earnings plus the redunancy payout to base my payments on(which is like $1960 a month for one child!!!) my USA earnings also have everything added to it like the hire car they let me use, the rent they pay for the unit im in,Airfares etc everything they pay for me to stay and work goes on top of your earnings so my $100k job shows up like $200k earnings. the system sucks
The tax office has received $189 mil to implement this program. Each and every time you get paid it is automatically reported to the ATO/CSA.
Compulsory start for a company with over 20 employees on 1 July 2018.
Please bend over a little more fellas, the reaming is about to get worse.
So all those that are not declaring their income, or delay doing their tax returns, will be exposed. YAY to us fathers whose ex's are rauting the system and draining us. They won't be able to hide any more.
It will NEVER change in this country don't waste you energy fighting this contrived system. Instead focus on your own life and not waste your time on things that will drive you up the wall and you can't change. Why do you think so many guys take their own life? So many people a killed because of this injustice? So many children torn apart . Your kids will always be your kids no matter what and one day they will come to know the truth. It's painful not having them but your pain and anger can only be overcome by peace in your own heart and life , otherwise what else is left sorrow?drugs/alcohol all leading to misery. Beat the system and don't let it beat you, and stay alive...
Sorry but a custody agreement is worth nothing and so is a useless court order.
All my ex had to do was convince/bribe the children.
Eg. Two weeks of school holiday, my weekend the last weekend of said school holiday - not overnight by this stage. Phone call Friday night by my youngest son, "hi dad, not coming this weekend cos mum has organised a sleep over for me"
Of course she did, can't even breach her for contravention cos they just say "it's what the child wanted"
Yes Suzy, they ignore your tax return and hit you with "potential earnings".
They then use this figure even if your not earning it and you pay support on the amount they deem you COULD earn.
My ex put in a complaint on my reduced earnings, CSA agreed with her even though I had A mental health program and regular visits with my doctor, my mental health didn't matter to them, this then left me with a large CSA debt.
Men, stop having children until Australia recognises us as equals in this arena
mediatible yet I would not be given the reasons why it is so due to confidentiality. I choose not to proceed to court and further disturb the wellbeing of my children who I love dearly and desire in my life. She has worked with the
Gustarpo CSA to ensure I continue to play slave while she achieves maximum family support benefits and maximum contribution from fulltime working father. I have been assessed by the Gustarpo as earning $96000 per annum when I have declared $26000. I have lodged 2 requests for reassessment both of which failed as none of the points I made were acknowledged as the CSA simply act to reduce the burden on the government without regard for the complexities
of individual family circumstances. I choose to painfully cut my losses and live life. I have taken financial steps to secure my resources and assets. I do not communicate to the Gustapo and I take advantage of the new life that has presented itself to me. In my dreams I hug and kiss my children and allow the potential future relationship to my children to unfold as it will. In the end this is my life and I will not allow others destroy it.
When I separated from my ex, I had it on the separation agreement IE "The child primarily will reside with the mother with the father having minimum 2 nights overnight access every fortnight and additional nights/access as agreed as long as 24 hours advance notice/ request is given to the mother" I actually was the one who put it in there. Also, I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks the 'Cost of a Child" is per week?
RE: your question when did I go back to work. I worked up until two weeks before my son was born and I went back to work when he was 6 weeks old.
I never stopped working, I worked full time from 15years old. I met my sons father at 30.I owned a house in QLD a sports car. + had money in the bank. He had nothing. He had a daughter from a previous marriage. He never took his daughter overnight when I met him,...he blamed his ex for this, However, once I set up a bedroom and bed for his daughter in our home his ex gladly allowed us to have his daughter overnight 5 times a fortnight,(I wanted her for half the school holidays...her father didn't) I sold my house in QLD and my sports car to purchase another house and a four door car so we get his daughter, our baby son us the car, I then bought a Sydney house with the money from the sale of my QLD house and my bank accounts and borrowed $300,000 from the bank. We struggled to get the loans (3 applications with 3 different lender at $650 per application which I also paid) due to his poor credit rating, but was successful in the end due to my good one. He did not pay one rates bill, electricity or phone bill, or petrol bill, car service etc...in this time, he occasionally made a mortgage payment never half around a 3rd of it. Where did his money go? He was a pothead...he smoked nearly his entire salary...Hence the reason I broke up with him after 10 months of buying the house and 2 months after buying the car.
I had now gone from no debt owning a house in QLD, having money in the bank and a sports car...to having a $305,000 debt and a six month old baby on my hip. As only 10 months had transpired from owning the house it was not worth anymore than I paid for it. Still I gave 'Him" some money sent him on his way /took nothing from him. I can assure you, I used to have to beg him to come and see his son and he often would say he was coming to see him and wouldn't show up. Or when he did show up he was stoned off his head. Eventually (3 years later) he lost his bong and found a bible...He used to quote various psalms...even this didn't change things. Even when he did bother to come and pick up his son he would bring him back early...a few times when my son was 9 I came home to find my son on my front balconey by himself because his father had dropped him off early and not told me, when I rang him and asked how he could leave our son on the balconey by himself, he sited that it was to teach him a lesson for not having a house key and to make him remember it in the future...I reiterate my son was 9 at the time. On paper my ex owes me over $40,000 in child support...but I never tried to collect it as I never put the case through child support. 16 years and 3 months later, now that he is having our son 10 nights a fortnight (our son is now employed full time), so I requested he take him as it is easier for him to get to work from his fathers place. I find out why he agreed a few days after...He had now lodged a claim through child support for $228 per WEEK...which child support warrants as they do not lay claim to any child support that is unpaid that wasn't being collected by them in the first place....even though their records show that he owes me over $40,000. I did what I thought was right at the time and in the best interests of my son, but 16 years later it has come back and bit me.
DHS office in Perth has door that open themselves at the push of a button. Why is the DHS wasting tax payers money installing these doors. Cant you staff use door handles. Are they incompetent or are you just wasting money.
I don't see other offices in Perth wasting money like this
How much does it cost to maintain these doors.
Why do you need so many offices Campbell
Where are those copies of your face that I requested Cmpbell
Make sure your tax returns only return small amounts so if they intercept your return, who cares. Long story but due to a biased ruling I had a CSA debt and they intercepted a nice tax refund I desperately needed
Also, don't have anything in your name, then if they take out a warrant of seizure and sale the sheriff is unable to take anything
Protect yourself against these bastards
When its a man family violence is splattered all over the TV with politicians getting involved.
This is the way the media conditions the way society thinks.
Get them to put it in writing. If they are hassling you at work lodge a complaint with worksafe. Bullying and Harassment is against the OH&S laws.
Drew have you received a change of assessment and have you lodged a change of assessment form. its still a one sided process but at least you will have it in writing which may be useful later.
Based on my experience this organisation appears to think they can operate above the law and don't have to provide reasons or to justify their actions. If they do provide a reason it is usually meaningless garbage which these arrogant civil servants expect you to accept and they wont elaborate when questioned. Bit like the KGB and Gestapo.
I'm still waiting for many FOI requests and for them to justify there actions.
There is justice in the world...just not in Australia.
My Ex Partner also claimed that I didn't want to see my child. She also claimed that she did every thing to encourage the father to see his child. Even went so far as to swear this in an affidavit.
The reality was the father was doing everything he could to see his child and the mother was preventing this to maximise the child support. There is proof of this unlike the BS that came out of this woman's mouth. What's said by many woman and what is reality are two different things
My ex quite her job when it wasn't necessary to do so. When your child went to school did you get a proper job. When did you start working full time. What age was your child. Both parents have a responsibility to provide for the child financially not just the father.
My mother raised three kids and she held a full time job. These are the woman of the past and these are the woman that deserve respect, not those woman of today who think they can sit at home and demand "entitlements" freebies and hand outs from the father and tax payers.
"This system is not against men, it is against those that work hard"
No it is against men. 92% of those receiving payments are woman.As mentioned the Family court of injustice sets the stage by allocating more time to mothers. Somehow they feel it is in the child's best interest to have more time with the mother. This is an archaic viewpoint which automatically places the mother in a more favourable position. Child support payments, FTB, pension cards etc. It encourages them to screw the system and many do.
If you agree lodge a complaint with the relevant government agency that deals with discrimination.
MIKE you are spot on , I've been paying over 11 years to those extortion mob.
Don't waste your time trying to win even if you are right cause they will drive you to insanity. Stay focused on your life don't play up or take drugs to get through. Remember it will Never change, it's aa contrived system.
Nothing will ever change for those of us already in forced servitude, after 10 years of fighting and losing on all fronts I take every opportunity to try and inform the up and coming victims of this draconian system about all the pitfalls they face and the high percentage that they too, will be where we are today.
If they listen, great, if not, at least I tried and their situation is on them, unlike me I was not informed. If I could go back and start over with this knowledge I would never have children. Not because I didn't won't them or love my children, but the physiological, emotional and financial destruction this country and system imposes on men is just not worth it. Hindsight huh
We all need to inform young men of what they face so they can make an informed decision about running the gauntlet of forced servitude.
I always refer to a movie called War Games where the hacker gets the computer to play itself in tic tac toe and nuclear warfare, its final summary is "the only winning move is not to play". Things may only change if men refuse to have children.
A mate tells me ALL woman have the c&@t gene in them and it only takes the right thing to set it off, and for many many women that's losing 100% custody and 100% of the money that goes with it.
I state quite clearly, Men, do NOT run our risk by having children until things change.
I personally will see out my servitude in about 3 1/2 years and then leave this arsehole of a country/system taking my money and the pension money to another country. This will be my revenge, Its not much but I know the govt. hate it when Australian dollars are not reinvested back into the Aust. Economy.
Fk this whole system/place and those arseholes that screw us over and say it's not me I'm just doing my job.
I hate the CSA and the whole system , they are so against men , we have no rights at all . I have the kids interest at heart but the system makes me pay so much , it really is unfair . I feel for everyone else on here , your stories only make me realise how us men are now victimised in this modern brave new world society . It has gone crazy with with an in balance of justice against men .
So I sit here contemplating my next move only to come to the conclusion there is none , And people wonder why men get so mad, if you don't understand that last comment it is because you have never being involved with a ex that is vintidicative and the CSA which is a tool to destroy men .
I want to tear down this whole unfair system , please tell me if their are any political parties who want to change the CSA
As for your comments Fred in regards to the one sided FOI thing, yep. same boat. "we will send an unedited copy to your ex" and we will tell you the results after she has commented(but wont tell you what the comments were!!
And guess what, as usual with this one sided country/government.
NO CHANGE OFF ASSESSMENT.
I have done my tax return, lodged signed off with the ATO at 29K however my income is fixed at 193K so I have to pay my ex $3200 per month. Which is just impossible as I don't have the job I had years ago while working in the oil and gas industry.
Lucky enough I was warned that a 2nd DPO would be put on me so I left the country 9 months ago and moved to Thailand where I am living as it far cheaper to live while unemployed. I owe the government 30K after paying them 30K previous to get the DPO taken of me so I could leave. Which was paid by may parents.
All I can say is good luck to you men out there. I really wish use all the best Australia is FKD and so one sided it is not even funny. I really wish I new the location of these CSA case officers as I would come back and gladly meet them and for us men.
Your assessor spoke to the mother by telephone to obtain information in relation to my objection to your assessment.
I requested a copy of that call under the FOI act
“FOI requests, such that third party protected information cannot be disclosed by the department, even when that information concerns an applicant or could reasonably be assumed to be known to an applicant.”
Your letter dated 16 November 2015
“Any subsequent information or documents you provide will be sent to Jane (changed) for their consideration for their response”
Based on the above it would appear that your letter dated 16 November is either misleading or a complete lie because there is no open process. The letter talks about information and that would include telephone information. All information. Perhaps information is only sent to the mother and not the father to prevent the mothers submissions from being challenged.
That wouldn’t be very fair would it. Explain the above Campbell?
Why do you allow her to produce secret information which is kept from the father so it cannot be challenged.
You FOI response also states
The general prohibition on the communication of third party 'protected information' in section 150(2)(b) of the Assessment Act and section 16(2)(b) of the Registration and Collection Act are subject to specific exceptions provided by section 150 and section 16 of those respective Acts. The exceptions relate to the following:
• correcting mistakes of fact that risk the integrity of the administration; .............
I need to hear this evidence so that I can correct this mistake of facts made by your administration
Please can you deliver a hundred copies to me. you have my address. I know just how to put your face to use.
Please see attached image of an A4 size picture of your face.
This image along with the Honorary Minister is on the entrance to a government building.
Why are you putting your face on the wall. Is that really necessary. Is your department paying for it and if so why is your department wasting tax payers money printing out your face?
What is the purpose of that Campbell?
you need more than 110 days a year with half of those over nights you state you get 52 days up that to 110 days and you will meet the care % with csa and payments will drop to match it
All of this harrassment by the CSA is killing me and its impossible to fight yet if my ex makes a squeak about something you jump on me like a ton of bricks.
Why is this so? im no dead beat dad, im no loser, im nothing but a caring and loving father yet feel like a criminal and worse still get treated like one(and an ATM to boot)
Ivejust read through some of your posts Deon, sounds very familiar to me. As soon as the CSA got involved(invited or inflicted)to collect instead of the private agreementi had my life turned to Sh*t. I too have had the phone calls demanding they speak to me at whatever time or place i find myself. I have been ill advised by the CSA several times causing finacial grief follwed by mental anguish. and yes, i too am now clinically depressed due to this departments biased unfair ways.
92 percent of those receiving child support are woman. That is a fact. The family court of injustice is the starting point of this and sets the stage for the child support agency. The CSA continues this discrimination.
This is not about poor me, Its not all about me. its about all the other men out there that have to deal with this discrimination. This is about a system that is grossly discriminatory and must change.
You unfortunately have somehow failed to capitalise on a system that is horribly in your favour. It sound like you have the children and had the opportunity to profit with the CSA. My ex is constantly contravening the order hence the court appearances. Remember there is cause and effect. If you cause dramas there is going to be an effect. If he is taking you to court perhaps you need to look at yourself and ask the question if you are doing the right thing.
My ex was well and truly denigrating the father to the extent that my child would burst into tear when I went to pick her up. The female magistrate didn't want to know. My child is older now and is able to make her own mind up and now comes to me with a smile. I cannot comment on you storey because I don't know you but you cannot deny that many woman play the victim card to screw their ex partners over.
I have sat outside the family court on many occasions. I practically live there and I have listened to lawyers talking to their female client leading them to say the father is violent and prompting them to seek a restraining order which ultimately would affect visitation rights for the father.
My ex tried a similar thing claiming she was fearful because I was 6foot4 and had made threatening gestures. what a load of BS
she didn't succeed on that one and gave up when she saw she wasn't getting anywhere with it. Ultimately it was me that sort a restraining order to stop the verbal abuse she and her relatives were dishing out. The reason why she was dishing it out was in the hope that I would knock her teeth out. Didn't happen. I showed restrain and eventually took it to the magistrates court which have a fairer system than the family court of injustice. If I had reacted to the provocation my child wouldn't have a father in her life. I guarantee the courts would have seen to that and that was her motive. During her last such episode I called 131444 and informed them of the situation and requested the police to be sent out. So sad luck sweet heart that one didn't work for you
The CSA are not only trying to cover their ass. I am sure they don't like these emails that I am sending them. If they paint me as unstable, hence the police I may loose my child. That would be a nice way to get back at me.
This agency and this system must be shut down. I have never had to face a system that has treated me in such a blatantly biased fashion and I will not be silenced.
Even though i was getting treatment for abuse years before i left, the husband claimed i made it up due to divorce.
Even though i had evidence of him having a porn addiction and a sex disorder, my barrister said if i got on the stand with PTSD that i could lose my kids - even though specialists said i was the healthy parent.
Years later i have spent $150k in court, including fighting a false recovery order fir moving house and him trying to move the kids school which is in a high crime area because it was convenient for him. Now...it turns out he has raped my 8 year old neice. And im back in court to ask fir supervised visits.
The kids love their father and all i want is that the relationship is safe. I signed away my child support rights.... so nothing financial csn be gained. So im back paying more legal fees.
You wsnt to know what he is saying? That i got my neice to say it. Who in gods earth would do that?
Si stop saying poor me. Because im a woman and i can say the same. Raped, neice raped.. no direct child support...still trying to ensure my kids see their dad...and he still keeps legally attacking me. He wont he happy until im dead. I fear many days that he may get his wiah.
So stop complaining. Its not 'poor men'...its poor all of us who suffer from the actions of others who dont put kids first.
That is fine by me
Police came knocking at my door tonight. They wanted to discuss me wanting to go to jail.
I told them about a lazy ex partner that didn't want to work was sitting at home and laughing at me because she knows she can use your agency to cause harm. They were told that you have a responsible father that is working, caring for his child
and wanting to care for his child.
They were also told that that if you agency continues with your threats and harassment that I was quite happy to go to jail.
I called my local police station to enquire about crimes that one could commit that would give a fairly short stay in prison so I could check in and out.
They were not very helpful and I was advised that no policeman would assist me in committing a crime.
Will have to research it further
If I kill myself I am free from your agency and the pain you are causing am I not.
Why are you trying to prevent this. Do you want to prolong the torture or is it to ease your mind or avoid a law suit.
If it is to ease you mind remember this. death is better than the torture your agency dishes out.
Something else for you to think about. Do you really think they would be able to stop it. If you do you are not so smart.
If you don't then why send them.
The only way to stop a suicide if to drug someone up to the extent that they are in a complete stupor. You wont be doing them any favour by doing that.
Shut your agency down or sort it out.
I received you email dated 30/3/2016.
In relation to the first to paragraphs of the Change of assessment decision. Your description of events doesn’t match my recollection. When the CD of the conversation arrives I will comment further
This nonsense of if you don’t agree with the decision go to the AAT. Why are you saying this when you have already acknowledged in this very same letter that you are aware that I have already done that. Can you not see how stupid it is spitting out rubbish that isn’t applicable and is irrelevant. Why, Why do you and others in your agency spit out rubbish. Do you think about what you are saying?
You state “discussed the concept of a rebuttable presumption” I initially interpreted this incorrectly and I apologise” You were telling me that the onus is on me to prove it not the mother.
Why were you telling me incorrect information? I want an answer on this one. Explain why?
I want to get an understanding on why and how you stuffed up. Also explain to me why the CSA continues to make so many bloody errors in favour of the mother.
In relation to the payments. You claim that “To date we have not received your payment for February 2016 due by 7 March 2016.” .
Seriously I am shocked. Payment were made on the 25 January, 25 February, 29 March, what have you done with my money?
I am paying you the correct amount for child support which excludes the additional amount that you have placed on top of it for that lazy dole bludger to sit at home and do F... all. She must get a bloody job.
There is nothing wrong with her, she is capable of working, there are plenty of jobs out there in her field of work and my child is in school during the day, so there is bugger all need for her to care for my child during the day. Why is your agency supporting this irresponsible behaviour?
Take my salary and I will be happy to go to prison. You, your agency, and the mother can explain to my child why she is worse off financial and why she doesn’t have a father in her life. I will explain to my child that her father was a brave man that couldn’t bring himself to live as a slave in a system that was cruel and discriminatory. I will tell my child that her mother was and is lazy louse that chose to take the piss and use an unjust system to harm her father.
You have asked me to contact you in this letter. I want you to communicate with me through the f4joz website. I want this to be in the open. I believe this is something that needs to be in the public domain as it is in the public interest.
old news but thats her