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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Looking for a little advice and support here. My partner has two children to an ex wife, who he has 50/50 custody of. We both happily support the children and have continually paid child support. Now she is with another man and had a baby and made the decision not to work, which in turn increases the child support amount. I generally wouldn't expect the new partner to support the children fully however she has chosen to stop working, their choice not ours, I should also mention that said partner earns over double our combined income. When the children come to our house they are full of stories about new couches, cars, tvs, kitchen aids, how the new partner pays for them to do this, that and all sorts, they also have horses and plan on buying my partners daughter a horse. Meanwhile we are counting our pennies and many weekends are unable to do much with the children due to lack of funds. My partner frets that this is going to effect how the children see life with him. It just seems highly unfair that we are having to fork out to supply them with extra money to buy such lavish items when we are literally living week to week plus they both have even amounts of custody!!
I have kept my mouth shut and tried to rationalize it out however she is now going through the CSA to get more money. Please tell me that there is somewhere we can go for help on this matter or at least that someone agrees that this is not right. How are we supposed to get ahead and plan for the kids future when we can't even save a cent..
This man loves his children more than anything in this life as i'm sure you all know and it kills me to see him worrying like this about things he doesn't need to.
(I should also mention we generally have a good relationship with the mother and other than this i do not have much bad to say about her, we actually get along, so please don't feel this is me bagging on my partners ex)
Thanks for reading if you got this far. I appreciate and understand all honest opinions.
He is obviously devastated but he realises he cant force her to speak to him/see him.My question is should he still be paying child support now that she has turned 18 and has made the decision to have no contact with him?
Do what you can to get CSA out of the picture, via a private agreement witnessed and written by solicitors. Get as fair agreement as you can formulate for your situation, even if it means waiting for a while to let things cool down a bit. I agreed to what was kind of equal to CSA payments at the time, but I knew if I could get CSA out of the picture I could live long enough to raise and be there for my son.
CSA and their formulas are evil and completely lack understanding of real world situations, they will destroy you, completely and without any care given! You should know this by now. Much like courts they are called upon at the end of the line, and should only be a last resort. Unfortunately they are also used as a milking tool, just like free legal aid for women who refuse to work, and are the first port of call once mothers know they have their business model established of given birth and set up income via the father.
I now have shared care 50/50 of our son after the mother abducted and abused him before I could put a stop to it via court and educating myself. She has BPD, need I say more. I educated myself as much as an engineer could in family law, and with our last meeting agreed to a private agreement which mostly cuts CSA out of the picture. Don't worry they still assess me and send out assessment letters for me to pay, even though our son spends 4-5 days a week with me and I am now bankrupt and earn well under what she does, (around the tax free threshold).
I could go on, but I must say also, don't be scared of bankruptcy, best thing that ever happened to me. There are higher values in life than finances. MGTOW is one.
I'm looking for help, I have always paid my child support for the last 13 years and there has never been any complaints from the ex until now. CSA put it up by $70 per week this year which I think is disgusting and she agreed to a $40 increase, I have been paying it straight to her since I started, here's the catch, I didn't agree to change weekends for her as I have done in the past and she got the shits on and went to CSA saying I'm not paying her correctly now they collect for her the full amount and I had to back pay for 3 months(btw that is all they can go back for) She has worked casually for 12 or so years and still does to this day but now my son is in high school he catches the bus home every day and she still leaves work at 2pm to go the gym. I was talked out of doing a change of assessment form using section 8a on the bases that she doesn't meet the criteria for not earning to her full capcity because her wage has increase by $400-500 per year which is bullshit, its just cpi really. I was threatened that they would go through all my income but I have nothing to hide , the taxation departments knows it all. I work 60hrs plus a week to support my family, new wife of 10 years 2 other kids to her including my son and now will have to work more to cover the increase and we all know then I'll earn more and next year she will get more!! its a shitty mostly mother supportive life style supportive bullshit of a system, I'm happy to pay but I'm not here to cover all his costs while he is with my ex.
Where to now?
I have 3 children who live in Austalia and I live in Thailand with my new partner, I left Australia as the CSA put a DPO on me due to arrears of 20K. I had to pay this for it to be lifted and have since left Australia. As we all know the CSA is a joke and does not listen. I have not worked for 2 years and not lived abroad for this whole duration, now my arrears is 65K
Here is the part I need advice on. I have a chance of a job abroad but the employer needs me to live in Australia. I would love to do this as I will have a salary again. Does anyone know or think if I approached the CSA and told them I have a chance of a job abroad but I have to live in Australia and I would be willing to pay 1K each month more than my already in place 1K payment they would accept this? and write a letter guaranteeing no DPO will be put on me. As other than this they will never be paid.
My ex and I pay his ex $450 per WEEK for their 2 children that's fine I believe you have them you pay but how the hell do they come up with these figures... that is a bloody mortgage repayment.
She doesn't let us have them over in Perth (she lived in Melbourne where his family was and we would fly between states at our expense) she moved to Nsw making it impossible for us to see them. We've just spent over 15k with lawyers just to sell their old house. She wont allow them to come to our wedding in September.
She didn't go by court orders from the house so going back to court will be lost money she wont put them on a plane and we sure as shit don't have thousands of dollars to go back to court again anyway.
How is this system even legal. How can she not work and get paid like she is. We struggle some months with money and I have had to go back to work already after having my baby (10mth old to my partner and 10y old from previous) just so we can still live....
When will things change and assessments be based on a better percentage that reflects today's cost of living for the paying parent firest :(
Anyway, we all have our stories... does anyone know please if the actual interest money payable for late Child Support payments ends up finally in your ex's bank account or is it just a penalty / interest payment that goes to the pockets of the Australian government? If its the latter I'll go and have a celebratory drink! So please let me know? Again - hang in there! And remember YOU, your kids and their relationship with you are the most important thing. Good luck :-) Dave
Just wanted a quick vent on how terrible child support is. My hubby has two kids to an ex. All seemed to be going well for the first few years, we had 50/50 care but still sent her $200 a fortnight to help care for them.
Then she went away for 6 months and we had 100% care of the kids. She contact child support right before she left and gave them the wrong address and phone number for my hubby so were had no idea she had even spoken to child support until 3 days before they were going to start deducting for my hubby salary!!!
We have had 100% care of them for 6 months, but as we didn't contact child support, only she did we OWE HER $3,500!!! We disputed, but the people on the phone couldn't even comprehend that we had had full care of the children, they kept thinking our dispute was that we already paid.
She get her friends to write stat-decs saying she had full care of the children! She wasn't even in the same State as them! We lodged so much evidence we had them, receipts, photos, stat-decs' from their grandparents, flights when we took them on holidays and finally CSA said they would look into it, but we keep getting bills!
Its so unfair, we paid for all their expenses and had them 100% of the time for 6 months and they say we need to pay her! We are broke from looking after the kids without her support, but where trying to keep it civil for their sake.
CSA is so difficult to deal with and this is so unfair. They keep telling us to pay it, but she hardly ever sees her kids. We pay twice and the kids miss out :( We dont mind paying child support to look after them, but it is ridiculous when she doesnt even have care of them.
My partner has two children to his ex. We have had non-stop issues from child support as last financial year. He was earning a very good salary working on the mines (he was still married then.)He has contacted child support numerous times to get the earnings changed. No such luck. He ended up with a debt which we had nearly paid off. In December he lost his job and went onto NewStart. He is now working again. He Contacted child Support to provided them with his new yearly earnings. Unfortunately the representative did not listen to a word he said and put in that in the last six months he has earned $129000. He is only earning $70000 Gross a year. Child support contacted his ex and said that he has been lying to her and that he is earning this huge amount of money and they are going to get it back ASAP. His Ex contacted him and asked if this was true? Obviously no. Anyway back to child support he went to get it changed. Yesterday we were contacted and because of this mistake he now owes over $6500 in debt. Because they can not back date it we have to pay this obscene money. We don't have that sort of money and I do not understand why we have to pay for someones mistake. Has this happened to anyone else and does anyone know how to get it changed? Is there a way or is it that once they put their figures in that is that?
I have been unemployed for the last 2 years and have paid monthly support payments through CSA out of my termination payment and savings every month. I did not inform CSA that I was still unemployed after july 2016 (apparently every 12 months I am meant to do that) so decided to bill me based on my termination pay from 2015, which put me in debt by about 12k. I just completed my 2015/16 tax which was my termination payout, and they have billed me another 12k from my termination package. So they have essentially double dipped. For the only income I received in 2015/16 was a one of termination payment. So I have been incorrectly assessed as I have not been working, I did tell then in 2015 I was Terminated and would be receiving a Termination payment. Just asking is the legit and is there anything I can do. They say too bad too sad.
Most of you have probably heard the gov will spend 391 something million dollars ,just like that ,on the federal police to help fight terrorism. Ain't we lucky they care about us peasants so much .we should be honered they care about their citizens so much.
But how many people die each week of terrorism as oposed to suicide (28 per week). So what is being done about those terrorists in the csa and family law
court's? Who by their design and greed enforce laws that make people feel so hopeless that they take their own lives?. Surely someone in the intelligence community can see this? Or media or universitys? 28 human beings each week and what? How much money will they spend repair/salvaging families instead of destroying them through csa/family flaw barbaric system. Next time someone calls someone a dictator or regime country think twice how you judge ,cause you dont have to look too far to see a regime in action.
If it could be proven beyond all reasonable doubt your son was not biologically yours, the State could be liable for not keeping proper records, such as DNA, but then again do we want the State to hold such information? Although, I think it may now.
If you were married, or at common law, with the mother at the time of conception, did the mother have a duty to disclose she had sex with another in the 9 months leading upto the birth, hence would she be liable? What would her defences be?
Then there's the question of who benefited from the $90k? Did the mother, child, State or others? Would proportionate liability come into play?
Also, did you as a father have a duty, as soon as possible after the birth, to conduct a DNA test to ensure the child was yours?
Failing a rebuttal of the presumption that the child is naturally yours, it's understood the child must be accepted to be yours, whether it be biologically so, or the fact you have declared ownership of this property we call our children. As no others rebutted this property belonging to you, it stands as fact it must be yours.
Hence, you have joint liability with mum for maintenance of joint property, both being known known as guardians, custodians, parents or parens patriae. I am sure both you and mum can prove you both contributed to your son's welfare and needs.
Then there's the cost of any legal action, usually up front with no guarantee of success or certain quantum. Even if there was a win against mum, could any judgment be truly enforced against her to seize assets or funds? Again, what would her defences be?
Then, there's the negative effect on your son of any such action, and on the r'ships he has with Dad, Mum and others. Also, there is the negative effect on you, the mother, others and resources.
It can feel like a wrong has been done to you, as so many dads in the same boat will attest to, but I wonder would a bigger wrong be created by any such action without first considering the potential harm to all concerned.
Further, introducing doubt of paternity into your son's life is another huge issue to consider. WOW! I'm sure there's more...
Had a Dna test done here a few months ago 99% sure im not the farther.
Dose anyone know if im entitled to get that money back ?
CSA helping to destroy families.
To all those thinking how good it is receiving money from the paying parent, think again. While you might be enjoying it now, life is such that you will pay later. While you spend the money as if it is yours and alienate the kids from their fathers. One day it will end and by then you will probably be old, you where doing OK and nneglected yourself by spending it as it came to you. Now old with no education or credible work history you start to worry and panic. Used to getting it regularly now no more. You took the bait now you must pay. CSA helps no one, we fathers may suffer now but you will too later. Open your eyes.
There is an ombudsman for child support . If you have a letter saying you owed nothing contact them and explain your situation. It can all be done on line.
You can have the other child added for consideration which will reduce your payments
Please read todays daily telegraph.
In the article - 28 suicides each week from family flaw/csa related hate.
Where is the National Enquiry? Or are we still in the domestic violence phase?
On anzac day lets march for the forgotten dads, hated lost soles of this evil barbaric system.
My take on all this? Do a shit-load of evidence-gathering yourself before you send in a C of A application - they are more likely to make an effort if you spoon-feed them info and the places to search, saving them time and effort. Always be polite, never get angry or vindictive on the phone to them. Write down everything you discuss in every call. Always get a name and a receipt number. There is hope, and it doesn't always go the female's way!
Perfect formula for ECONOMIC PROGRESS.
read answer below to Sally
this will have a black column down the left hand side, scroll down to "separated parents" and click.
This should have you elevated past the CS defense screen.
nobody you talk to by phoning CS will tell you about it unless you force it on them. Good luck
Then scroll down to 277-03130000
This is "capacity to pay"
this should give you a start
She has 100% care of the other 2, due to her ringing CSA and telling them the kids weren't going to come and stay with us any more. She did everything she could to discourage them and told some really nasty lies about their father.
How can her income drop from $50000 to $8000 in one year while she is still supporting children? My husband is paying her close to $500 per fortnight, while also supporting our 2 children and myself while I am on leave from work.
I believe that fathers should definitely help support their children, but the system seems to be rigged in favour of the mother. She took the kids away from him, stopped him seeing them and is now getting a quarter of his income every week in Child support while we struggle with bills and groceries.
My question is, is there a financial hardship assessment that i can send in? Has anyone done this in the past?
Same as Dave below. Anyone know?
Top answer Paul.
Tom just keep paying + a bit more mate, cause if you dont you won't see your kid for some time.
Suggest to those just starting their csa sentence.
Buy yourself a caravan ,something that will last at least 15 years.
You need to diversify your work.
Ask your parents or friends if you can park it at their place sometimes.
Follow the seasons and go fruit picking for a few months, while you live rent free in your caravan.
Work for cash as much as possible.
Don't think about grand things like buying a house,cause that will be impossible even for those who don't pay cs.
At least you'll be travelling along the country with your mind off all the shit and might even find a little town which you might settle in. Life will still go on... do some study to improve your qualifications . And by the time you know it this will all be behind you.
Or you can spend the next 18 years doing what wise man Paul said below.
Now, let's get to the important stuff:
I'm a father of two (diff. Mothers). I pay Loads to CSA for my eldest. My youngest I've been denied contact with since before she was born. I never held her when a newborn, I never walked her in her pram, I never settled her to sleep and put her in her cot. I experienced nothing but heartache for the last 4 years. I decided now it would benefit everyone if I just give up.
Any other fathers feel like this or am I alone?
you are only obliged to pay what the CSA assesses you to pay, or any other amount by a Court order. If you want to pay more you can, but it will not count for anything except good will.
so my advice - pay to her only what the CSA says to pay. If you feel you want to do more for your kids, then do it - but do NOT listen to your ex when she tells you that you HAVE to pay more.