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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
My story is a long one. Lived with a girl for 9 months had sex a few times left as she was crazy. 3 years later i find my tax return was stolen by CSA i call to find out that a claim has been made and that no proof was ever gave. According to the CSA she made a phone call. I have requested all documents to be gave to me they refuse as they have none!! I asked how can this happen without my authority they said they sent me letters and i did not respond. Now heres the thing. She makes a phonecall gives no proof to me being father just her say so then gives her own address at the time as my address. Now this should be the first red flag! she claims i ran off but yet my address is the same as hers?? WTF. So now 6 years on i still refuse to pay and each year they take my tax return. They also have been trying to get my wifes information as they said they have the power to take her money. Now few things 1. I moved out after 9 months she was pregnant after this date. This is the only time i responded to CSA they asked for proof that i was not living with her i showed i was not and gave the docs proving this. That the dates could not match up they replied saying. Basically get f#cked we are CSA a law of our own and even tho you have proof we do not agree and even tho she has gave no proof we are still going to rob you. Finally after 5 yers of me and my wife struggling to get our own home and have our own child we can almost afford to start court process to get tests done. When the paternity proof says i am not the father aparently the CSA have done nothing wrong and the thousands of dollers illegally STOLEN from me they do not have to pay me back!!! WTFFF!!! I will then need to take the crazy bitch to claims court to force her to pay me back. At which my lawyer has informed me she can pay 10cents a week for the next few 100 years. The whole system is fraudulent and needs to be reassesed and changed ASAP. Ppl rattle on about equality. How about if 2 ppl are together or even just a one night stand one wants a child the other does not why is it the womans right to make that choice if the guy does not want a child then their should be a document that states the father has no wrights to the child but also does not have to pay. As the woman takes full responsibility. It should be both parents decision to have a kid. As if a woman does not want a child she can just get an abortion. Again with the man having no rights or say to stop her.
It is a fact that dads will be treated with utter disregard and disrespect when divorced. Try calling anywhere as a dad worried about the welfare of your children. Get used to being treated like you have just commited the worst crime, that you are not an equal parent, that you do not matter. Oh but stay poor and keep handing over the money.
2 choices.....sit in the corner, grab your knees and rock back and forth.
See the situation for what it is. Ride it out. Enjoy the time we have with our kids. Celebrate like hell when the ex no longer has any control over you. Do all you can to ensure your kids reach adulthood being the least affected possible . Show your kids love.....never bag your ex in front of them or in earshot.......take care of yourselves, your health and mental health, build freindships and move on.
Good luck to all
I would like to get some opinions if possible please; I have just got off of the phone with CSA.
As I explained to them, part of the reason I am in arrears, is that my child access has been minimal. But this has been through the following actions by my ex wife.
1. She cut off the mobiles that I had purchased my daughters.
2. She moved home in Perth without telling me, or leaving a forwarding address. By chance, her neighbour told me.
3. She has to move to Mt Tom Price and work there for three years, because she pissed off so many people in the Education Department in Perth. Obviously, I could not afford $800 per fortnight to fly up there and see my kids.
4. She returned to Perth about a year ago, I only found this out because of her Facebook profile.
How do you think the Family Court would see this?
I have always paid my Cs and about 2 years ago my daughter told me she never wants to see me again. So as fathers do I seek mediation , ex refuses to go 2 years later I'm here right now at family law courts waiting the outcome of a child inclusive mediation session.
So 2 years ago my ex gets the shits because I fight to get access to daughter, she submits a change of assessment which invokes a investigation in to my financials and the csa in their wisdom put my Cs up 4 fold
Even withstanding I have 4 other children to my wife now 3, 5 and 8
I am booked to go overseas in 2 weeks with my family, but the csa has informed me the have placed a departure ban on my passport, I now have to explain to my family I can't go on holidays with them.
My objection to the change of assessment was lodged over two months ago via a lawyer and csa claim they don't have it and I now need to apply for a time extension for them to proceed.
I think I'm about to loose my family because of this my wife is more stressed than I am
The truth is out there but csa don't like facts they are bullies
My partner spend 10 yrs trying to find his son
3 yrs ago he found him and went straight to family court to get access his ex didnt show for 6 court cases so the judge put out a breach she turned up to the last 1. Judge told her to her face women like you make my job hard now have 1 more court case to set throu next yr to see if he can see his kid. Court does work so try that. Judge had csa drop his payments down from 805 a month ( my partner payed every month since kid was born )kids now 15 to just under 200 a month to show he has other kids to support as it doent take 805 a month to raise a child a court order is the only way csa will drop payments as they wont believe a thing you say. is going to court worth it in the end yes it is their your kids fight anyway you have to just so you can see them goes for everyone out there
I have paid almost $30,000 per year for the last 4 years .. yes, that is per year. making a change of assessment application costs nothing, objecting to it costs nothing, going to the administrative appeals tribunal costs nothing, and so far, going to the Federal Circuit Court has cost me nothing ....
If you think you have a case - TAKE HER ON ....
I was just surprised that there was no-one on here going through the court processes that was willing to discuss .. I know that once I have been through mine (in December) I'd be more than willing to give any guidance to things I learnt / observed ..
Try the Mens Peer Support Forum at www.mensline.org.au - they give really practical advice and try to guide you based on their own crapy experiecnes with CSA and Family Law experiences.
But, I have asked so many times for thoughts / guidance from those going through the change of assessment processes (through the AAT and FCC) - so my only guess is that no-one is going through that process.
If no-one is going through that process, then nothing will change in your circumstances - you have to take a step to start the journey. It has been hard, I lodged mine in Jan 2015, objected twice, went through the AAT, and appealed that to the Federal Circuit Court. in December I will have a hearing ....
if you want change, you have to start "something" else no-one will know it is broken ....
I feel your pain, really. Their system is very unfair, that has left me in debt, case in point for me:
My ex works as a teacher, she was thrown out of 2 schools in Perth for interfering in other teacher classes. Dept of education gave her a choice; go to a country school, or lose your job.
So, she went up to Tom Price for 4 years, and took my kids with her. Because she was far away, CSA attitude was I could not be bothered to see my kids. How about the $800 air fare costs? And that is why my debt has been back dated.
This is a really fucked up process. They should look at the people as well.
Ex is a true psycho.
1. It was accumulated over a period while I was unemployed and for a lot of that time with no income at all.
2. The debt is not to my children or my ex, it is to an unfair corrupt department in the CSA that takes money off vulnerable fathers that have been stripped of their families who are depressed and then with the further burden of being put into debt by unfair late fees are on the brink of suicide.
I gave my ex all of our assets at the time of our split so my children wouldn't suffer and so they had a roof over their heads, but for some reason that doesn't count for anything. I give my children all I can afford and now pay for half the school fees and other bills direct.
By taking money from my pay this stops me from being able to live a happy life enjoying being with my children.
I am being slugged $$$$ out of my pay this week. That's the money I would have used to feed my kids next week when they are with me. That's less money I can spend on my children's Christmas presents. That part of the money I could be spending on school fees and I have to live as well, pay rent, run a car, eat, stay healthy and I do this all for my children and they still take money from me.
The system is unfair
CSA is unfair.
I contribute to my children and I'm there for them, so why does CSA make it harder for me to do this than it already is.
I'm in exactly the same situation. It's so hard to sit back and watch them go through this emotional hell and what csa and politicians don't realise is the strain this puts on your relationship.
Start writing to MPs etc and tell them from a wife's point a view the more of us that do it the better.
Hang in there and just pray WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!!
The information is here:
"A notice under section 72A cannot be effective against a joint bank account because it is not possible to identify any portion as belonging solely to one owner (DFC of T v Westpac Savings Bank Ltd 87 ATC 4346)."
You have my sympathies, and I am really angry for you and your new partner. I am the wife of a man who has been to hell and back for the last 13 years with the Child Support Agency while his lazy sow of an ex wife has sat on her arse doing nothing, and we work ourselves to death to pay for her lifestyle.
I have spoken to the CSA about her cash jobs but they want me to prove it, which is quiet difficult, being in a different country. I just feel that my assessment should be based on the cost of living in the country that the child is living in, Ireland. The maximum i would have to pay a week there is 150 Euro, and that is if i was earning a huge salary, which as an electrician, i would not be. On average over here i have paid $1100 a month for the last 4 years which is crippling me and my family. We are living on the other side of the world without any support network from our families so you tend to rely on your financies a bit more.
By the way, someone said, have a joint bank account, i do and a joint savings account with my partner and only last week, these cockroaches went into it and took out $3500 without even telling me. I could not believe what had happened, my bank said it was a court order and they could not stop it from happening. This has sent me over the edge and made me realise my time in this country might be really coming to an end. I have never felt more violated in my life. They just totally ignored the $11000 credit card dept that i have, funded my trip home recently, and saw my savings, our safety net, a couple of grand, and figured out that i should service this debt that i had. This was on top a her receiving all my tax return, $6000, in August, and also, what i have paid her every month over the year. It makes me so angry!!
I hadnt worked since I was back in Australia then CSA started to automatically take from centrelink payments. After I stopped centrelink I lived with my girl friend and she supported me. I think CSA asked ATO to force me to do tax after I finished with centrelink so I did a zero tax return (some income few hundred dollars from bank interest was my income). So after I did my tax returns all close to zero or around $300 to $2000 interest from divorce settled savings. Now that my savings have been depleted to approx $5000 the CSA said I owe $100 a month but I couldnt pay it as I was being supported by GF and Family, I told CSA I had no job they said to go on newstart and I said I dont want to as I am being supported. So if they can see my bank depleting slowly they can see I have no job but they still insist I have income from somewhere. They asked if my GF can pay it, I said its not her responsibility and not my place to ask money off my GF. I have no contact with my child as the mother said she doesnt want to see me. Now they forcibly took money from my bank approx 1 years worth $1200 to 1300.
I have borrowed money to my gf by bank transfer and she has paid me back several times so I am wondering if CSA think that I was getting income from her? even though I borrowed her $4000 in total last year.
I am confused what to do. Any idea what to do? review my case? but whats the use if they have already decided!?? Anyone had luck with Ombudsman?
When they did that to you, did you receive any paperwork from CSA, or did you try to go on holiday and get stopped at the airport?
I am going to try to pay like a good boy, but in March I am going to want and NEED this holiday to see my daughter. I need an escape from the grind of working seven days a week for shit pay.
I totally agree with all you say. I'm a woman and between those I have worked with listened to around school etc the majority of them are after money only. They are conniving, wicked women but our government rewards them for it. We got a restraining order on my husbands exwife so in return she stopped the kids from coming and gets rewarded with extra with extra money. She waited for an inheritance to come then left him after having an affair for 12months.
They plan everything then rip off the system.
I agree with you that the bitches at csa are on a power drive I would watch my husband get off the phone in tears.
Change your phone number don't give it to them
Good Luck all you men!,
Thanks for the heads up. Even though I was verbally warned about the travel blocking, I do not think that the sum that I owe them would warrant this. After all, it is only 3k when all of their ridiculous penalties are removed.
My eldest is 17 now, the younger one 16, so not so long to go. I have only just started work again, and this week CSA gave me a revised estimate of $320 per month. In regards to the verbal threat, I get a feeling that these lesbo's who work in their call center get off on a little power trip.
The one, single time in all these years that my payment was worked out correctly, it was done by a man.....LMAO.
I cannot see this draconian system ever changing. Unfortunatley it feeds the greedy ex-wives who planned this for a long time before ending the marriage and did their sums and worked out it is a win win for them. This system almost encourages divorce by making it so financially rewarding for the women.
I earn exceptionally good money now however after the massive amount of tax comes out then then $400 a week child support it brings me down to a quite pathetic wage for the highly stressed position I hold with very long hours. This brings her income up considerably from the measley wage she earns for herself because she has never applied herself to better to actually earn more. So with her wage from her very easy short hours job plus child support, plus family payment , plus scamming money off charities claiming to be poor she now exceeds my income.
The thing is she was left with the house, contents, car, money, everything and I walked away with the shirt on my back. I have furniture in my rental that I had to pick up from the street verge that other people were throwing out.
So my kids when with mum get to do things and have fun experiences that I essentially pay for. When with me it is a struggle financially, I cannot provide those experiences. If I had all the money I provide for child support we would live like kings.
I for not one minute begruge paying for my children. What I do object to is raising the living standard of a lazy ex that could not work to do it herself. But then constantly tells the kids that she is doing it tough and and dad never pays for things etc, etc.
I started work at 15 years old, I work hard and am proud every cent I have I have earned. I am now quite old with nothing and by the time I can save again when my child support ends I will be an old man.
The system will never change as no one cares, similar to the VRO system where practically every divorced dad I know have had a VRO slapped on them. This is advised to the women by legal aid to protect the house and keep the dad from taking anything plus to gain leverage in family court and of course to kick him while he is down.
All the time the government have this system which is essentially a lotto win for the women, it encourages the scum bags of this world to split and take the easy way.
To all the decent women out there that do not follow the greedy path, to women that work hard for their own money, to women that do not poison their children with lies, to women that actually have some morals, ethics and standards, well done and all respect to you.
Don't take the DPO lightly, as they do it and I know first hand. I was on a trip abroad leaving from the GC via Sydney on route to Dubai. I got as far as Sydney were the AFD stopped me and would not allow me to travel due to CSA debt. I had to pay 28K which I got a loan for and travelled 3 days later. And I have never been back in Australia since. This was 3 years ago, so in all that time I have not seen my kids. The CSA is so rot as well as the AAT which believe me again is a waste of time. Although I am not working and have not been in a few years the CSA has fixed my payment amount at $3200 per month. So now I owe a further 60K. So will I ever see my kids again. I dont think so. The country is just Fd.
Yes they can stop you leaving the country. There is no warning, just a letter in the mail or a phone call informing you that you are now subject to a Departure Prohibition Order (DPO).It does not need a court order for them to do this, just a debt. There is no set amount that will invoke this...just a debt that they choose to chase you for. They can seize assets if they so choose but this needs a court order. I have been on the end of a DPO and an attempt by the CSA to jail me. Just a word to all you people out there, the Federal Court WILL NOT JAIL YOU FOR UNPAID CHILD SUPPORT. They will coerce, bluff and cajole, but CANNOT jail you. A DPO is the worst they can do ...effectively jailing you on the island of Australia.
In regards to my previous statements re; travelling, has anybody on this forum ever heard, or known of a genuine case of this happening at all please?
Also, in regards to CSA seizing assets, does anybody know what sort of owed sum they may do this from?
I was only trying to get an idea of the $ value that they may introduce these action on. As I said, if you remove all of the penalties, it comes down to about $3,000.
For me though, there is injustice in the way the system works. My ex took the kids away because she was forced to work in the country - kicked out of 2 previous jobs, and she was over 1,000 kms away from me.
And yet CSA opinion was that I did not want to see my kids!
yep CSA can put a stop on you leaving australia Ive never heard if anyone has tryed leaving with a csa stop order on them throu
Also if you own them money even after kids turn 18 they will still chase you for it
Ex wifes are always the ones in the wrong when it comes to csa but i know a few blokes that do the same just saying
I have recently been receiving threats from the CSA, but I really need to know if they CAN do the sort of action that they are threatening, not sure if they can. My story is complex. I have one daughter overseas from a relationship, and 2 daughters here in Oz from my first marriage.
CSA told me that I owe them $6,000 in back payments, of that, perhaps a little more than half is in fines and penalties that can be remitted. I was also threatened that that can block me from going overseas.
My two girls here are 17 and 16, so my CSA with them will end relatively shortly. My youngest s birthday is in March, and I really want to fly to the Philippines to see her. Can CSA really block me from travelling?
I don't want to book my flight if I will be stopped at the airport.
I won't go into my case any more, because as much as my ex wife is a psycho, she always seems to win. Two years and counting down....thanks,
if you don't mind a chat, and have 10 minutes - do you have details of how I can contact you direct. Don't need advice, just a chat about the process in the court.