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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
The CSA was represented by private lawyers, and flew special counsel in from out of state to defend the action against me - an unrepresented litigant.
I could only appeal on a "question of law". Anyway, Hearing was last week, at the end of which the Judge invited the CSA to file further submissions to a point I had raised.
Today - I get an email from the CSA's lawyers informing me that they are conceding, and the matter will now go back to the AAT.
Who said we cant win if we are right .....happy days !!
My reasoning behind this is
1 what makes a child worth more than another just because someone earns more surely that is descrimination to all children in seperated families.
2 this may encourage more couples to sort out their issues rather than take the easy path (I know that doesn't apply to all seperations)
3 the amount of money the tax payer / government will save getting rid of over half of all csa employees.( and watch them try make it in the real world )
4 we all know the money doesn't go to the children most is spent by the ex for the ex
5 everyone then knows where you stand straight up eg 1 child $100 per week 2 children $150 per week 3 children $175 . These are just random figures as an example. This makes all children equal no matter how much the payer earns.
Once the relationship has ended everyone has to make the most of the cards they are delt.
Not rely on the ex ,s salary
Just thinking out load
Furthermore if for any reason a child chooses or is not made to see the paying parent then the payment amount goes down, this will then encourage the ex to make sure the child continues a relationship with the other parent so they get the benefit of the Cs
Obviously It won't work for all situations but there will still be checks and balances in place to sort out the crap some people will spin
well fuck me where do I start!!
Ok, let me tell you about our fantastic CSA system and our wonderful government/judicial system.
1. CSA dosen't believe you even with your evidence to prove her lying again..
2. If you look like a silver back gorilla and she looks like a fairy you must be the violent one.IT'S that simple!!
3. Well fuck me the big silver back hay?? I was fucked before it even started.
4. I know my 4 kids love me they tell me every time I see them at the supervised visits (every second weekend supervised for 3 hours) when they ask , can I come home with you please Daddy.I love you....Breaks my heart every time to see them have to go back to the manipulating Witch.
5. I hope this can help someone else!! I have been played since 2010 and set up for this shit.(turfed out when I asked to many questions in 2016 and on our 16 anniversary)... Well planed and excited with help from a (friend) that she convinced over the time I was a monster.
Yes a friend, my best one, I was his best man twice and he was the god father of my kids (first 2)
She worked on him for the past 5 years planing all this. Poison, poison, poison, until he believed her.
Wasn't I Blind?? I thought he was my mate , you know looking after me and being impartial when needed between my wife and I.
Was I fuck'n wrong?? I was done over by them both working together, he told me I was a bad father because she said, what the hell ever?? He believed everything she said.
6. Now that their deceptive conduct was complete I was screwed.
You know what shits me as well as all the other crap?
There are a lot of problems with the current system. The bottom line is that taking money from someone without their consent is theft. People may argue that this harsh treatment is justified as punishment. However I believe we can make a sound argument that child support should not be punitive. Separated fathers are already suffering from loss of contact with their children, this is adequate, natural punishment. Family breakdown is a tragedy and the government does not need to apply external punishment to make the situation undesirable because it already is. One change we can request of the system is to ensure it is not punitive.
Another problem is the desire to equalise the economic advantage between households. This means if the father earns more he still has to pay even if there is 50 percent contact. This imposes a sort of communistic arrangement on the separated couple, where the right to private property is diminished for the paying parent. We can see where this comes from, men, in general, are the providers in a relationship. The law is saying that the man must continue to perform this role in the relationship after it has ended. Yet, women are not required by law to continue any contributions which they made to the relationship after it has ended. Further to this, since it is a principle of the child support regime that men are providers in relationships, we should naturally conclude that a consequence of forced providing to an ex-partner will impair a man's ability to be a provider to a new partner and to form a new family. It follows that the current laws restrict a man's ability to form a new relationship, and naturally there can be harsh psychological consequences for this.
There are other angles on payment despite 50/50 contact, there really are a lot of reasons why it is wrong. For example, it ignores the fact that a higher income generally relates to a higher level of economic productivity. It may be because of additional work hours, it may be because of years of hard earned experience in a particular field, but the fact remains that the higher income is not some random stroke of good luck, but something that is a result of personal effort. The current system penalises men who have made the effort to increase their earning capacity by inflicting higher rates of child support on them.
Another important problem with the current system is the ease at which women can apply it on their ex-partners. There is no requirement for the separated couple to work out arrangements between themselves as there is, for example, in the UK. The availability of the CSA to women as a personal debt collection agency simply gives them excessive leverage in what should be a family discussion about what is a reasonable level of ongoing support.
Writing to find out if anyone has been in a similar situation. My partners child support money may have been used for criminal activity. She has been convicted and is serving time. Can he get this back etc ...
Wow some of your stories are heartbreaking :(
DJ I hope someone somewhere is supporting u.
My ex earns much more than me and I signed all assets over to her, the family home etc so the kids would always have a roof over their heads. CSA doesn't take any of this into account. Over the past couple of years I have had periods of no income and being homeless so I couldn't even see my kids. I am now just getting back on my feet and seeing my kids but have a CSA debt of $10000, how does this happen when I had zero income for about 6 months and then on Centrelink income for a while until gaining employment earlier this year. All this while the ex lives in the home we built together with her new partner an investment property and a new car. I just keep afloat paying rent etc and CSA still takes money from me
Anyway, what I wanted to say is there is a web called change.org that can be used to petition for our thing. We would see what support we have if well worded (would draft that yet I am not EN native speaker). We could agree on the wording here, include examples, goals (one of them to be e.g. to have CSA release stats on their "clients" suicide rate or such..). If you followed the Red Pill movie screening that has been initially shut as its about these very issues we discuss here had a huge success getting the support. There is so many people like us affected, big power, waiting to be heard.
Just an idea. Stay strong,
It is far too simplistic to lump any parent into the “deadbeat” category to justify extorting from these Citizens. Most of us desire to financially support, love and share our lives with our children and our Communities. Unfortunately, the present system does not enable these parents to do so. It simply creates greater separation, parental alienation, too much accountability on the lower care-time parent and it provides a means for one parent to lever a government agency to crush the lives of the other parents. Our future Australian Citizens (our Children) are growing up with unresolved internal conflict as a result of this negligent Government behaviour.
We are asking that you acknowledge the negative impact that this system is having on the fabric of our amazing society. We are asking you to represent our crying-growing minority who are taking their lives as a result of these unwarranted govern attacks on our Citizens.
Thank you for your attention
Mr Trevor Watson 13/12/2016
I will briefly outline my story here as it has common threads experienced by many separated, lower care-time parents. 6yrs ago I discovered my Wife of 18yrs was having an affair with my best mate and we subsequently separated and I left the family home. We formally agreed to parental care arrangements for our three children and divided the family assets. The agreed parental care arrangements, were never adhered to by my children, or their mother. My children slowly became estranged from me as their mother had given them the choice at the age of 6yrs, 8yrs and 8yrs. I chose not to further disturb our children by taking the matter to court yet attempted to resolve the matter by initiating mediation. This mediation failed for unknown and “confidential” reasons. At this point I was completely up to date with my Child Support payments even though I was not seeing my children. This is when the dreaded CSA really became involved in my life as they applied their draconian formula which resulted in me being required to pay the highest amount of Child Support. My ex.-wife is living with the man she had an affair with (who is a business owner), she is now working 3 days per week, getting the maximum benefit from the government and attempting to get the maximum benefit from me due to her having full-time care of the children against my wishes and attempts. My children are living in a large four bedroom house on the lake by the beach and have all of their needs well and truly met. I began to struggle emotionally with my teaching position as a result of not seeing my children and came down with the shingles. I then chose to take a year of leave without pay in an attempt to heal and to come to terms with life without my children. While on leave without pay the CSA attacked me telling me I have to go back to work and earn $82,000 pa as this is my “capacity”. They continued to invoice me as if I was earning $82,000 pa when I was not. In the 12 months of me not working the CSA racked up an $18000 debt against me based on my capacity to earn. I have since been threatened by the CSA with legal action and having a DPO taken out against me. Meaning that I will no longer be permitted to travel over seas. I have received up to four phone calls per day from the CSA. I now have a fanciful debt with the CSA that will be taken back from me the moment I return to my fulltime teaching position. I am Presently, attempting to work on getting time with my children and considering not returning to my Teaching position. It is not only my children here who are missing out on a loving father it is now a Community who may loose an experienced and dedicated teacher as a result of this CSA “shake down”.
Dear Senator Hinch,
I am writing to you on behalf of our children, myself and fellow Australian Citizens who are suffering, and taking their lives, as a direct result of the actions of the Australian Department of Human Services, more specifically, the Child Support Agency. I have worked in a professional capacity (As a Social Worker and Primary School Teacher) with fellow Australian Citizens for the past 28yrs and have given much of my life to aide my fellow man. Presently I, along with a rapidly growing number, feel anger and contempt towards the disgusting manner in which our government is attacking many of it’s Citizens through this extortion racket called the Australian Child Support Agency.
(Please visit www.f4oz.com for conformation}.
This agency simply uses its draconian legislation to “shake down” the lower care-time parent without regard for the true requirements of the children they so claim to be representing. Through the guise of Human Services this agency is stealing money from citizen’s bank accounts (without the account holder’s authority or recognition of one’s basic living requirements) they steal tax refunds, and/or attempt to take a citizen’s assets, they prevent Citizens from travelling overseas and they take unwarranted legal action against them using tax payer funds. This has occurred to me personally and has also occurred to many other lower care-time parents.
We have a lot going on all of us.
Sorry to all about a few typos I have found in my comments. I use my phone and auto correct sometimes pre fills the words.
I am just peeved off that in this country that they put in plans to help every one out from a single mum or dad to helping people who need it. Except the one who workes 6 days a week and have to pay maintenance (child support) that leaves hardly anything in the account to pay rent and to buy food with from a management job. That is BULL SHIT. Trying to support a new family because of what I get from the work I do on the sliding scale Isla would only get a few dollars if that from Centrelink and that would be it.
I know I am not the only one who is in this position. It makes me feel so damn low, that I can not fully provide for my new family.
They wonder why the person takes there own life.
I know if it was not for Isla and our little one together I would not be here. But on top of it all it makes me feel worthless that I can not give them the life they deserve because of CSA taking all of our hard earned money. All the sleepless nights and back to back shifts still have nothing to show for it.
You don't need Facebook. We haven't got it either same reason
Go into Pauline Hanson one nation website. Go into contact us and there is an email
Tell her what you think!!!!
you sound like you have coped it from all sides and we all need you to make a stand with the rest of us and be a voice for the good of fathers and mothers that have been screwed by the elites and the powers that be!!
We will not be sheeple any longer and won't follow their Dumb flock, we will do are damnedest to change the one sided corrupt system.
thank you for your support and understanding.
Their web sites there.
Right now everyone send them something, tell them your story about the corrupt one sided system and dont hold anything back.
Tell them your pain. I have and hay it might not help however they are hearing us and we can make a change.
Stand up, be mad as hell but lets use it to combat this system/indestry we are stuck in.
Remember everyone who is getting fat at our expense??
I know you know the answer already!!
The peasants are revolting -- that what they think of you.
Your revolting because your X said you were.
If you don't see your babies don't pay for what you have no control over. Just don't do it. The deceitful win again.
Your children are being brain washed by some vindictive humans (that side of the family) and you are made out to be everything from a pedo to Hitler.
Fuck'm dont let them do it to you, keep your dignity, be strong and forth right.
Check this link out to the home of the free
More to come soon.
As a woman i will be helping raise awareness & supporting Will get justice against the corruptness of the CSA. It is just wrong & disgusting the way fathers are treated & i am appalled that the law protects women who use children to steal money & Assets from their children's fathers, & the continuing of such abuse that the men are crippled emotionally, financially & physically that any attempt to try to rebuild their lives are nearly impossible. I stand by Will & all fathers used & abused by an outdated & sexist system. Change must happen & with numbers by both men & women with this lived experience, & women who support & advocate for their rights with them, i'm pretty sure the nation can be stopped & forced to take notice.
Firstly congratulations for not giving up after all these years. Finally people understand what you are about.
I am writing to you in regards to csa and how unjust they are against Fathers.
I have watched my husband go to hell and back over the past 15 years. The emotional Blackmail from his ex , the threats from csa and the general treatment.
We got a restraining order on his ex so to punish him she stopped the kids from coming and guess what maintenance went up. It is no use us going to court as this costs us a lot of money. This has put financial pressure on us as a family and not to mention the emotional, mental pressure it puts on us as a family. We have 2 children together and I was working 2 jobs before I had to have tendon transplants in my feet and was diagonosed with 2 autoimmune diseases we put in for a reassessment but it was rejected as csa stated his first family comes first. There needs to be a reform, if the female stops children or the children stop seeing the father then no extra money should be given. As a woman I have seen so many men be traumatised through all this and my opinion is csa causes a lot of the family violence for the pressures that are put on them. I went into family relations once and blasted them for being so unfair, I also blasted them for taking the violence against men posters down. WOMEN EMOTIONALLY VIOLATE MEN yet that doesn't count because there is no bruises to show.
Pauline I ask you to have a look at Fathers 4justice site and Dads in distress.
Women are getting away with murder( more and more men are committing suicide)
Through this crap system.
You help is needed
Sent from my iPad
I keep say let's stand up well let's do it.
We will have to come up with a day and it will be a hard thing to pull off. Coast can be high but we will all have to meet up at the head office of the CSA. Minister responsible
Minister for Human Services
Kathryn Campbell CSC, Secretary (since 2011)
I am willing to pull together with every one and we do it the old fashion way right in front of this place at there office till we get our opinions across.
Then we can make our case and get it changed.
It has worked on a lot of other cases so why not this one. They can not lock us all up and can not get us on freedom of speech.
Yes most sites are Venting but also have support with a few.
Hang in there and yes there are a lot of good men who have had the same done to them, and taken there own life over this situation.
I am also getting counselling now because I have also contemplated it as well.
It is a unfair system and it needs to fall.
We need to make a stand and I am all for it, we need all stats to pull together all of us to unite. The only way we can do this is to shear this site with every one we know, who is in the same boat.
But becarful with whom sees it, due to I have seen sites been shut down due to people like minded as us who want to make a difference with today's laws. They do not like it. There is a email a few comments down the page. Email Mick and that way we can keep together and find away to beat this once and for all. The best voice is all ours put togeather as one from every single person who is willing to stand up and be noticed. They can not stop us all at once and they can not push us away if we are all in it.
Even if your friends have no children and they know what u are going thru they will back u if there real friends I have people who are will to stand with me here in my town. They have no children. So let's stop saying and start doing now. It is our time to BE NOTICED....
We can do this if we play it smart enough.
Remember we as men have no rights and no power over this discusting system.
We need some women to stand with us.
Talk to your mums and girl friends and see if they will have a voice for us.
I have found 3 women already who cant believe what is going on and are willing to help.
Question --- Who is paying child support and dosen't see their kid's???
I miss my 4 sensational kids.
Let them all know how you feel.
Remember they dont give a fuck about you or your kids or if shes a meth head.
Tell them straight don't hold back.
Let them know what the system has done to you and your beloved kids.
Time to rise up and be heard.
They cant lock us all up!!
I'm in, who's coming with me to make some noise??
Even my nearly 80 y/o mother is emailing and talking to people about the system and its injustice.
MAD AS HELL!!!!
Use your anger well..
Rise up and give them shit, say no more I'm not listening to your one sided crap.
Change banks, every month if you have too.
Stick your money in a mates account,
Just don't roll over anymore,your not a dog or an ATM, make a stand!!
I'm going to!!
The fuckers left me with not much left to loose.
I have been raped by this one sided disgusting system and a minipulating deciptful X.
It starts with one voice!
And I'm not going to shut the fuck up!!
Who's coming to stir the powers that be with me?
Let me know and I will get my email to you and a web page done.
Time for a revolution!!
Everyone please start writing to Pauline as she is starting a CSA reform
Vent your issues and feeling. More rights for fathers.
On her one nation website you can read what her intentions are with family law.
Have your say NOW.
Either do it on her Facebook page , write to her or email her through One Nations website
Good Luck. Remember PEOPLE POWER
I've sent this to Pauline..
Can’t believe the family court system and the court system in general and how a woman (wife) can steal all your money and cover it up with a VRO and then play the system with lies and manipulation.
It’s a long story but to say my 4 young kids are pawns and weapons used to try to drive me to suicide I’m sure is her hope to cover up what she did.
The lawyers say there is nothing you can do as she got the VRO first. That ruined my business and my life (as I working from a home office).
Just found out in WA you can get a VRO now if you have a fear of someone. Don’t need proof.
I managed to get my kids off the VRO but she is still on it and now she has made application to the family court of a notice of child abuse or family violence. Never was any violence.
I cannot believe the lies and the twisted half truths that she can say and get away with it.
What can someone do to help me and all the other poor men that are killing themselves because of this system.
There are some sites like this but it’s mainly venting about the system .
Please help us Pauline
If not please do so.
For example, in New Zealand child support is only collected if the mother and/or child is on welfare payments. In Sweden the amount to be paid must be agreed between mother and father.
I will float a few ideas:
- Limit a period of compulsory child support to a maximum of 7 years after separation. After that point any payments would be voluntary on the father's part. If the mother can maintain a positive relationship with her child's father than no doubt the father would be willing to pay a reasonable amount.
- At 50/50 contact, there should never be any payments. In other words, the objective of balancing the economic advantage of the two households should be abandoned. If a man earns a man's salary and a woman earns a woman's salary, the man should not be penalised.
- When a woman enters into a new de facto relationship or marriage, then the child support payments should reflect the combined income of the new relationship.
- When women have new children in a new relationship, this should not affect child support payments from a previous relationship, like it currently does. If she can't afford to have new children she shouldn't have them.
- If a couple separate within 24 weeks of the date of a child's conception, there should be no child support owed from the father if the mother decides to carry the child to term.
- There should also probably be criminal charges for getting pregnant without the father's consent. For example, lying about using the contraceptive pill.
If you have other ideas please post them.
If we all act in UNITY and stand up as one, if we do that and fight for what is RIGHT they have to listen, only and only if we act as one. How do unions do they stand as one and use one voice. If we all stand up and make our mark at once they can not push us to the side. It is time they stand down and here us.
We can not work our self to the ground. I have a new family to support, and CSA want to take half my pay, and I am the sole income provider. How is that just full. It's not.... I am willing to take a stand I say if u want change,,, STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!!!!
Those men and women who want to join an alliance in dealing with rogue and corrupt forces that act unjustly and unlawfully impinging upon our rights and stealing our freedoms, whether it be through CSA, family court, banks, other courts/tribunals, councils, lawyers/bar/law society, telcos, energy utilities, ombudsman, tolls, state trustees, police, rates, fines, taxes, farming problems and much much more, contact me at email@example.com.
I urge other strong willed individuals with a passion for justice to do the same in other states, otherwise we will only continue to lose our families, kids, wealth, sanity, our lives and way of life if we keep thinking we can fight this shit alone!!!
They are thieving our energy; blood, sweat and tears, and even those polymer notes they gave us after exchanging our value. Speak and act or sit in silence and do nothing...the choice is all yours...I choose to act!!!