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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
For example, in New Zealand child support is only collected if the mother and/or child is on welfare payments. In Sweden the amount to be paid must be agreed between mother and father.
I will float a few ideas:
- Limit a period of compulsory child support to a maximum of 7 years after separation. After that point any payments would be voluntary on the father's part. If the mother can maintain a positive relationship with her child's father than no doubt the father would be willing to pay a reasonable amount.
- At 50/50 contact, there should never be any payments. In other words, the objective of balancing the economic advantage of the two households should be abandoned. If a man earns a man's salary and a woman earns a woman's salary, the man should not be penalised.
- When a woman enters into a new de facto relationship or marriage, then the child support payments should reflect the combined income of the new relationship.
- When women have new children in a new relationship, this should not affect child support payments from a previous relationship, like it currently does. If she can't afford to have new children she shouldn't have them.
- If a couple separate within 24 weeks of the date of a child's conception, there should be no child support owed from the father if the mother decides to carry the child to term.
- There should also probably be criminal charges for getting pregnant without the father's consent. For example, lying about using the contraceptive pill.
If you have other ideas please post them.
If we all act in UNITY and stand up as one, if we do that and fight for what is RIGHT they have to listen, only and only if we act as one. How do unions do they stand as one and use one voice. If we all stand up and make our mark at once they can not push us to the side. It is time they stand down and here us.
We can not work our self to the ground. I have a new family to support, and CSA want to take half my pay, and I am the sole income provider. How is that just full. It's not.... I am willing to take a stand I say if u want change,,, STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!!!!
Those men and women who want to join an alliance in dealing with rogue and corrupt forces that act unjustly and unlawfully impinging upon our rights and stealing our freedoms, whether it be through CSA, family court, banks, other courts/tribunals, councils, lawyers/bar/law society, telcos, energy utilities, ombudsman, tolls, state trustees, police, rates, fines, taxes, farming problems and much much more, contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
I urge other strong willed individuals with a passion for justice to do the same in other states, otherwise we will only continue to lose our families, kids, wealth, sanity, our lives and way of life if we keep thinking we can fight this shit alone!!!
They are thieving our energy; blood, sweat and tears, and even those polymer notes they gave us after exchanging our value. Speak and act or sit in silence and do nothing...the choice is all yours...I choose to act!!!
can you please get the money out of Andrews account.
The blood suckers will find it and DRAIN you dry.
Try to think a little smarter, I don't think we need to be much smarter to beat them.
Just cleaver about our personal stuff.
Stay strong and be proud!!
know how you feel mate.
Tell them all to get stuffed or fucked if you like and take it out of my tax in July.
See if you can get your money paid into a family members account instead and go on the fuck'n dole.
STAND UP BOY'S
DON'T LET ANOTHER DECEITFUL WOMAN WIN AND STEAL YOUR CHILDREN AND ALL YOU WORKED FOR BECAUSE OF THEIR LIES!!
IF WE ONLY HAD A VAGINA TOO HAY???
ALWAYS REMEMBER IN THIS DISGUSTING TWISTED SYSTEM ---
THE BIGGEST LAIR WINS,,, BECAUSE IT NOT JUSTICE IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FUCK'N FORM.
I've been screwed from the pointy end of the pineapple and she is now going to go for spousal maintenance even though I'm not working. She can make up any crapp she wants and they believe her. She had a VRO taken out to remove me from the home/home office destroyed the bus we had and forced me in to taking a small % of our assets.
Who ever gets the VRO first wins!!
That what the Luck'n useless lawyers say anyway.
Tell them to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
They CANNOT drag you into court. You have NOTHING to do with Andrew's situation, married to him or not, and if CSA say that to you they are BLUFFING and LYING to you.
They took your money under a 72a application because it is paid into ANDREW'S account. It is NOT a court order
If it was your account they CANNOT touch it. The simple way is to have your wage and Andrews wage paid into your account. But you must realise that any of Andrew's payments can be traced but the CSA need a COURT ORDER to access YOUR account. It must ONLY be in your name. Another way is to have a Company account IE Pty Ltd ABN, Directors ( must have 2 directors ) and all that goes with running a Company using the Company as a firewall between yourselves and the CSA. I know its stressful....I have been there. Just remember to get creative with your accountant. It will cost your more in legal fees if you use a solicitor to get your money back. The only people who win out of this are solicitors ( Leeches ) and ex-wives.
If Andrew can be paid through the "Company" then they cant touch his wage as well.
Don't stress.....you both need to be healthy for your family..... treat it as a cat and mouse game.
The point at which income no longer affects child support is currently $178,140. So, unfortunately this is way to high.
The amounts are specified here:
I am quite happy to pay any financial obligation I may lawfully owe on condition that the following is provided:
1. Validation of the debt, ie. actual accounting;
2. Verification of the claim, ie. invoice signed by a living man showing value has been provided or sworn affidavit; and
3. Certified copy of the contract binding both parties, comprising the eight essential elements including wet ink signatures.
Please reply with requested proofs and substance to be received within (14) days, failing such, it will be deemed that no lawful debt obligation exists.
Only a guide, change it as you see fit.
I'm French been in Oz for 4 years with Andrew. He's Australian .
He has had 2 kids with his ex and needs to pay $ 16,077.47 to child support before tomorrow ...
We basically barely afford to pay for our house loan with both our wages.
My salary goes Into Andrews account.
CSA took 1,300$ 2 weeks ago, leaving us only $106 to live on for 2 weeks..
I'm on antidepressant because of immigration issues and Andrew is loosing it with talking to CSA.
CSA said they will take legal action against us to recuperate the full amount of money ...
We really need psychological and legal help...
Do any of you guys been in the same situation ? How can we find support to get through this?
Someone told me we could ask Andrews superannuation company for the money...?
Thanks for your time
"Stage 1 of the reform was introduced on 1 July 2006. From that date the minimal annual rate of Child Support was increased to $320.00 and is indexed annually to the consumer price index. The minimum payment again increased on 1 January 2008 to $339.00 per annum.
The Child Support cap was reduced from $139,347.00 to $104,702.00 so that the income of a payer over $104,702.00 will not be taken into account for the purpose of calculating their Child Support liability. This change was in response to research suggesting that high income earners were paying Child Support in excess of the cost of maintaining their children."
So child support assessment can only be worked out on $104 702 max right for paying parent?
The reply to us was his first family comes first.
Every time we have put in a reassessment they have been rejected.
CSA will do your head as well
They are nothing but arseholes.
Look up your local council website and see if there is free legal advice
I feel for you Jen. But it will never end.
Be aware as well ALL your information goes straight to his ex.
So much for privacy laws
My husband has reduced his hours to share care for our one year old son so I can return to work. He is also suffering stress and has a medical certificate.
His ex wife works part time and reduces her salary each year by less then 10%, csa consider this minimal and no issue. We did not have an issue with this and paid the assessed child support as required.
Now my husband has reduced his salary she did a reassessment and he has to pay full amount against his full time salary not reduced hours salary. Will the dr certificate and caring for our son have any weight??
You get less time for murder. Csa create family violence. Eddy I really feel for you kiddo as far as csa are concerned what the woman says goes. Dads are molesters, violent etc according to them when in actual fact the majority of them make wonderful parents. I'm a woman and have seen this for years.you don't see many single mums drive crap cars, broken fingernails and grey hair
Sorry to hear you have been through all that. It's good hear from females as it proves the system is not all one sided and is broken badly. I also know a female that was ripped by the system and nothing she can do. The govt just don't care that they ruin peoples lives. It seriously needs review but all too late for many, unfortunately. Best regards.
My son was 9 years old and jumped on a train and called me when he got lost to come and get him. That was the 1st time. 2nd time he almost made it to my place but the railway police caught him and made both of us wait for his mother. The third time he ran away from school and made it home....I rang his mother and told her I wasn't brining him back this time and he was staying.
The point mate is if you do the walking No one can stop you. Your father won't get into trouble and neither will you.
Good luck with what you choose.
I had the court tell me during divorce proceedings that 14 is the age for someone to decide to live with Mum or Dad. So Dad cant get into trouble if you choose to live with him, he is doing nothing wrong... :)
A , simple work for cash.
Questions like yours i would not answer here as those csa fks surely read this site.
My situation is that I am going to be working as a contractor with my own Pty/Ltd entity.
I am wondering if there is someone who could provide advice about how to minimise CSA payments in this scenario.
I have read the law and a great deal of related information, but I would like to talk to someone who has been successful in a situation such as mine in structuring their affairs so to minimise CSA payments. Presumably this would mean legally minimising taxable income.
I have read in this forum the idea that a father could refuse to contract with the CSA as their powers may depend upon common law. This reminds me of 'Sovereign Citizen' type theories about law that I don't personally think would be successful.
What I want to do is legally structure my income so that child support is minimised.
Please contact me by this email address email@example.com if you can be of any help or could refer me to someone such as a tax lawyer who could help me.
I had a VRO (called AVO here) removed once but the x had to agree and we both had to go to court to have it removed. She claimed she would give me another chance, while I said the whole thing was BS in the first place. It took months and I got dragged through the meat grinder and all the legal people made $$ out of it. As far as i know that's the only way you can. Other than that is to sit it out and start your own new life. Don't give up and best you can do is hope the kids come back one day. I lost one son through all the BS who hasn't spoken to me in 7 years... For children to lose contact with a parent is very sad but the legal people don't care because they made $$ out of it and have unclean hands... Such is life.
I was a full-time Dad I only worked 22 hours a week and cook cleaned did breakfasts washed clothes did the school drop off's you name it I was there, we had the home office.
OK, enough going on SG.
Anything you can think of that might help me get the kids and get rid of that f---- VRO. I know she will fight me all the way and hard too. She isn't scared of lying through her teeth by the way. At first, I'm going to offer 4 weeks of supervised visits min of 6 hours per week.
Then I'm going to ask for the kids from school pick up Wednesday till school drop off Friday morning and then the next week school Friday afternoon to Monday morning school drop off, so 6 nights a fortnight and that way I don't have to see her too.
The VRO is the other. I have been told that she wants it to stay on her because her friends and school mums and dads might find out what really happened.
Because of that and trying to find a place it took 11 weeks to get the internet on and some office stuff from her it completely stuffed the business we had. She even told the two JP's in the court that my 13-year-old saw me taking pictures of my penis and sending them a friend. She also has texts supposed from the kids at 9.30 at night saying they are frightened of Daddy and even a letter from my 11-year-old saying how frighten she is, however, there are 3 different sets of handwriting in it.Sorry, I'm going on a bit. The only thing I can say is it is a rubbish and it was all to do with her getting sprung shifting money out to her old man. And that is another story a blood sucking long one. So the thing is I was set up to stay and set up for a big fall by them both on promises of many things.
I have a letter from her saying I could supply the kids a phone so they can talk to me which I did and I saw all the kids on the day before my 4-year-old's birthday 22 May for two hours with their godmother present and gave them the phone then.
All the kids were crying at the end and wanted to come with me. The next night I called them with their godfather with me on speaker phone and my 9-year-old son said he had the day off school because he felt so sick because he missed me so much. After that, she turned the phone off and threw it in the cupboard then wrote my solicitor a letter saying she wouldn't vary the VRO because I had upset them so much. And that's just a little bit of the B--- S--- she has done along the way. She even went to Bali for 5 days and left the kids with her parents.2. She got the kids put on the VRO out of spite the whole thing is vexatious and it takes so long to get to court and defend it, bloody just over 6 months and to have the feeling that I wouldn't even know if the kids are alive or dead, just helpless and the whole system suck's.The VRO was all on her say not proof or even hearsay, her lying her say and I lost my kids because of a spiteful mother that got caught loving the wrong family, her father.
3* They sent the older kids to the psychologist and so I found out because the older two said they were a little frightened at times they can try to keep the kids off me longer. They really did their homework before I wasn't of any use anymore.
All emotional hurtful things as they can all the way, I got the VRO a week after my 50th and on good Friday which was our 16 anniversary and I was taking the kids to their Nanny's that weekend for an Easter egg hunt.
Sorry going off again :)
In that time, (16 years of marriage) we had 4 children ages are 4,9,12,14, with the 9-year-old being the only boy. They are on the Violence Restraining Order as well, she told the magistrate that I was taking the kids away and she was frighten for them. She knew I was taking them for a Easter egg hunt at their Nanny's for the weekend in Toodyay in WA just over a one hour drive away.
It has been 8 month now that I haven't really seen them and the Violence Restraining Order court date wasn't until the very end of September then she had a barrister for it and tried to make me out to be a fuck'n monster. Then the fuck'n court system could hear it in one day so another 4 weeks later we had day 2 and at the end of that day find out that the magistrate didn't bother to read the original transcript from when the VRO was granted is just fuck'n unreal. So he has reserved his dissension until the 5th of December
We were also just prior to me being turfed out in the process of purchasing a business.
I have just settled the financial side of things with only just enough money to cover the requirements for the bank as it will help me look after the kid's futures and she said I could see the kids once it was out the way.
I was happy to settle, just to get rid of her and now I will have a fighting fund to fight for the kids and it was probably better than going to court. She got 70/30 of the combined superannuation and 60/40 of the cash that was left from the sale of our house in 2014. I was told it wouldn't get much better than that and now I can move forward.
She wanted me to sign a minute of undertaking that the Violence Restraining Order stays in place and she will take the kids off it. We had already sent one to her with the Violence Restraining Order removed but with the same undertakings as the Violence Restraining Order (not that I want to talk to her anyway).
Anyway, there is a bit more involved in the past to get into for now but its hard to keep it simple and short.
Point form might help:
1. The VRO is complete B--- S--- she has even told the godfather of our kids she only used it to keep control of the kids, money and get me out of the house and I have read the transcript and the whole thing is full of crap. We had a home office at the time and she was asked in court if I had any tools of the trade at the house. With only 30 mins to get out, I could only grab a few thing for work.The god father was chick'n shit and wouldn't go to court to help me.
THE SYSTEM IS JUST SO ONE SIDED, NO WONDER SO MANY MEN COMMIT THEIR OWN MURDER.
A bit of background for you.
Back in March, I was thrown out the house (ON OUR 16TH ANNIVERSARY)with no warning and I have even received letters from the wife saying I could stay till June. I found $30k missing TO HER FATHER from the bank account and also, via internet banking, found out that she had transferred all the funds into a bank account in her name only from our joint account.
Just prior to that, I also found other amounts to her father and that she had also bought him a car and paid lawyers, mortgage, car loans and other items for him. It all added up to around $1.5m in the end over our 16 years of marriage but most of it since 2010.I was turfed out on Easter Friday 25th March, after being at work all day and even sending her a text asking where she would like to go to dinner for our anniversary>
Fuck me what a DC I was.
How this makes sense is beyond me. Taking money I do not have.
Merry Xmas CSA
My ex chooses not to work full time, as she has a great life with her sugar daddy. So i looked into form 8a capacity to earn, and again more smoke n mirrors. This form 8a wants to know everything about me ,pages and pages of shit, like your income,possessions, houses,cars,marital status what colour undies i wear etc, for WHAT?. All i want is for them to look into to her capacity to earn.
Everyone beware this is in my opinion another trap of csa fks.
They want to know everything about me so they can at their discretion determine that im just whining,and maybe even to raise your amount, cause you may have inherited your grandfathers knife collection.
This fking formula is supposed to be based on both parents income,right. So why dont they actively pursue her like they do me.
Happy white ribbon day fellers.
And male suicide is just a trivial topic, not worth any ribbons
Rot in hell all solicitors and lodge politicians.
Im a mum and have to agree with you CSA are doing the same thing to me .My x owns a ABN and 3 business but doesnt work doesnt do his tax nothing BUT owns a house goes on holidays brought a new car for himself and his new wife all with out a job so its MY FAULT cause Im not doing a thing to get money I gave up as well being the caring bitch I am its not far on him to support his kids that he helped make. Get a job CSA told me and leave him alone he has no money WTF do they think I do all week 80hrs weekends 2 jobs and Im not doing enough to support my kids so I went to court still going throu court. CSA told me once a person has a ABN its not their money its the company money and they cant go after a ABN holder
Until we form a united alliance and fight the legislation we will never win. Yes CSA are making fundamental life changing decisions with no regard for the rights of our children and yes, we are drawn into protracted battles with them and others. My list is impressive, I've spent more time in court and studied more law than most lawyers in the past three years. If we are truly frustrated enough to take action, suicide is not the option. We need as much support as we can get. We need a member in the upper and lower house as well as state representatives and it needs to start now. I wish that there was a quick answer but everything to date has been bandaid solutions. Start searching out politicians that are sympathetic to the cause and post their details here, have every pissed off 'payee' send letters of support and get some real action happening.
It's interesting to hear things from a woman's point of view who is on the sharp end a bit like us guys are. Personally, I believe that there should be a royal commission into CSA, not that any good would come out of it.
But yes, one of my key gripes is that they work out their formula on gross earnings.....who the hell gets their gross earnings? If I did, I would not have a debt to the CSA.
Personally, I see this whole thing as the federal government taxing us all twice, and earning more from the interest on that money. Given that, I doubt that it will ever stop.
But the thing that gets me SO fucking angry, is how people with their own business do not get fully audited. Example; even though my ex is now a teacher, previously, she was a graphic designer with her own business (I think she still has said business, but has hidden it somehow). But anyway, in the years prior to her becoming a teacher, her earning on paper were..........$5,000 per year!
WTF? People would not get out of bed in the morning for that, but CSA accepted that as a figure? How fucking stupid are these people? I only have about another 2 years of it left, that is my only saving grace.
Sure is a lot of pain expressed in this forum. I'm perhaps one of the few females who has been victimised by the CSA in "reverse".
My ex husband refused to pay Child Support, for a couple of reasons: his money is his (self centred), addictions are expensive, he needs to be a victim, the CSA made an error in calculations and we have 3 children so 18%x3 off gross earnings just about put him in the poor house.
I don't believe CS should be off gross earnings - no "normal" family pays the children before the tax man so I agreed to a private arrangement with the ex. I also believe 18% per child is too much - good budgeting and thrifty practices especially when there's more than one child means a sliding scale would be realistic. The ex refused to pay anything in spite of my giving him an "out" from CSA and requested a reasonable amount, but C'link calculated as though he was so docked my pay. I was very poor and couldn't get a job.
Eventually I was forced by Centrelink to contact CSA. They made an error, charging him far too much which I didn't think was fair on the ex (even though he's a very nasty person) and it was endangering me as the ex joined the CSA in abusing me. I told them it was wrong 3 times but they ignored me.
Thus began the ex's violence towards them and more at me. He eventually worked for a company and was paid in his aunty's ABN number - went underground.
He still makes me out to be the traditional "bitch" - won't let him see the children and many more lies, all to justify his not paying a cent. In the end the CSA bullied ME to find him, get money from him and so on. They kept checking my bank accounts, asking about transfers, calling me and being very nasty. They did nothing for me at all except cause a lot of problems.
It's almost ten years ago now that I insisted I be exempted from collecting CS. It was safer and got rid of the CSA who did nothing but abuse and pressure me and treat me like a criminal. The ex thinks the CSA can sweep his tax cheques to give to his children so he hasn't put in his taxes for a decade. He'd get enough to buy a house as he's on a very high income. We're still on a low income but without the CSA in our lives, it's bliss.
So please keep in mind fellahs that the CSA abuses and uses everyone. There are people who do the wrong thing for sure but I'm suspicious that a lot of problems between couples are actually created by the CSA themselves but the ex's don't know that so blame their ex.
I despise the CSA.
I have just been through this process, but where I lodged the COA under 8A and 8B. if you want to give me some contact details, I will have a chat with you about the process and what happened at each stage (regarding provision of information and documents etc and the CSA processes).
Happy to assist if I can.
Nothing stops you getting advice on what you intend to submit before you submit anything, if you can afford it. Don't talk to them, do it all in writing.