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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Why is the court involved when CSA have a job to do and their own laws prevent them from doing that job making it more difficult, time consuming and costly for anyone to have anything corrected? Maybe it's free but time is money. The courts also cost taxpayers money... Judges are paid money... Its a huge expense all because someone wrote that CSA cant go back more than 18 months.
its a lot more complex... I was self-employed and about 8 years ago i was fined $120k by the ATO for late returns with interest... About 2 years ago I was successful in having the interest remitted (forgiven) but that amount is then considered income and added to your real income... (adjusted income)... (e.g. you earn $60k and they add $120k, so you pay tax on $180k) CSA then take the $180k as your income and charge Child Support on that... Its a systematic fault in the system... I filed a special circumstances and CSA agreed it was wrong and reduced some of it but because of the Act refused to go back further than 18 months and refused to include one child that had finished with child support.... Then at the end of the last financial year, (for some unknown stupid reason) it automatically went back to child support on $180k. I submitted an estimated income and they refused it.... I should not have to keep submitting special circumstances (and bare my ass and soul) and estimated incomes when medical records already provided prove my incapacity to work... I should not have to start a court case or the AAT for their own systematic failures when they agree its wrong... WTF is wrong with these people??.... Another systematic fault is when medical records are presented they have no idea what they are looking at, and words they have never seen before... so they take the attitude of "it can't be that bad" or "maybe he is making it up"... CSA refused to allow me to claim medical expenses as a deduction from my "adjusted income" in some form of fairness that i'm disadvantaged....My medical reports state "permanent chronic illness", how much more do they want?...They have no concept of how physically ill this disease has made me and how disadvantaged my life has become... so all that aside, I have two options, pay the money or start a case... Like the Tax laws, the CS laws are written so that CSA can bend the rules to maximize pain and suffering... Which, if abused, is a "misfeasance" in public office.... If I had the energy and money I would sue each and every staff member from ATO and CSA that has made any decision to make my life harder.
1. a wrong, actual or alleged, arising from or consisting of affirmative action.
2. the wrongful performance of a normally lawful act; the wrongful and injurious exercise of lawful authority.
And btw... As of the end of 2016 i'm now finished with CS...Which also makes it harder because they say "case is closed, you had your chance"..... i just have to clean up these loose ends...
TIP: If CSA ever tell you that you can't claim medical expenses you MUST object because you can... It came back on their report that I didn't object when they refused, so they didn't do anything.
Did you put in tax returns over this three year period?
if you did your assessment for the new financial year should be based on the tax assessment not some previous year higher income. they just cant keep using an older period if they have the new tax amount.
You CAN get them to go back more than 18 Months.
read and understand "guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/4"
Get all your medical records together , a letter from your doctor and any specialists, organize yourself and send complaint to AAT (a special independent adjudicator) no cost.
make sure you insist that CS in on the phone during hearing and not your EX (done over the phone)
THE AAT can also have penalties removed if you put it in your submission
You need to read this from
"Child Support (Assessment) Act 1989"
112 Court may grant leave to amend administrative assessment that is more than 18 months old
(1) If an application is made to a court under section 111, the court may grant leave for:
(a) the Registrar to make a determination under section 98S; or
(b) the court to make an order under section 118.
(2) The court may grant leave for an order to be made under section 118 if the court is satisfied that it would be in the interest of the parties to the proceeding for the court to consider, at the same time as it hears the application under section 111, whether an order should be made under section 118. If the court does so, the applicant is taken to have made an application to the court under section 116 for such an order.
(3) Otherwise, the court may grant leave for the Registrar to make a determination under section 98S.
They cant lock you in into the future if you do an estimate.
You can only be charged 3 Months CS back pay from time of AFC
(check they did this correctly) (some times 9 months)
If they did not do the AFC correctly you may have a case with the AAT despite delay due to not being informed.
rental return is income( but under separate law some may be a tax deductible)
please note no responsibility taken for suggestions although they are based on my battle.
If you had no job for a period your tax return will show less income so when the new year tips over they must use this as your next year new assessment.
Important .. if you then start earning above this average and don't tell them they will hit you with heavy penalties when the next year trips over.
If you start earning more you can do an estimate ,either before end June for full year or any time for remainder of the year.see section 60 of Child Support (administration)act.
Now ... Did you tell them you were not working? If you did they should apply section 65A and 65B of the ACT,(but they never do) this should reduce your assessment to $1060PA.
They never report this on their Cuba notes so ask them to send copies of Cuba notes and copies of the voice recordings the take on every call and compare them. They cannot refuse you this request.
Compare them if you told them SQUEEZE.
Changing your case officer is another tactic they use to delay. confuse and stuff you. Insist on keeping the same one.
Remind them of the Objects of the act (read it yourself at the top of the act)
They only by law are to make decisions according to the act or the Registrars directive.
You cant sue the Federal Gov but remind them that they can personally sued for damages if they don't follow the law. Gets their attention.
As for letters .... Check that they have your correct address and insist on a copy of that Cuba note call this will prove they have your correct address. With me they sent mail to a 20 old address and failed to update my phone number.
When you get "assessment letters" read the whole thing , the last few lines give you 28 days to object ( but more if you have special circumstance.. their is a list of these somewhere if you cant find i will look for you.
As for your 15/16 $42000actual earnings i think what they have done is that you must of earned more in 14/15 and they have recalculated on a under "estimate" which allows them to multiply your???error and put on penalties.
Section 55J tell them how to "GENERALLY" work out your new assessment. they follow this and ignore other provisions ie, not working.
Going forward you need to do an "partial Year ESTIMATE" section 62A of the act . Before you do work out all your income from June 30 last year till the day you do the "Estimate" over the phone ok but get Cuba Notes and recording.
Important .. if you start to earn more overtime etc you must keep abreast and report you extra before end of year .Do your tax return as soon as you can.
if you are not working 65A and 65B above should come into play
As for going forward you should do a partial year "estimate' if you are working or going back to work.
I don't think it costs anything to take them to AAT but you must know where they did not follow the AC. As for your delay did you have medical (Stress,etc) problems this allows an extension
Did you have a court registered "agreement" this locks parties in to some extent.
If you had a "private collect" she can only claim 3 months back pay from the time she made her "AFC" "application for collection"
If she made an "AFC" CS had to ask her certain questions which would (should of seen you get a phone call to confirm), They forget this bit. chase the case officer on this they will try to hide it.
Also push them to drop the penalties .it is within their power.
Fill out a complaint if they refuse make sure of your grounds and advance your case to the "AAT" within 28 days of their refusal. make sure to tell AAT that it a procedural problem and that CS must be on the phone hook up and not your EX. despite what this says +they must follow the rules, your problem is to work out what rules they didn't follow. Don
Another option is to have your case revert to private collect. Make sure you pay to ex,s bank account only(no Cash or goods)
CS staff can only make decisions in line with the ACT's that govern it. BUT THEY GO WELL BEYOND THIS. You must get to know how the screwed you. They will not tell you your rights and deliberately miss lead you from my experience.
Send a formal complaint to your "case officer" (make sure you have one ,these are higher up the BS ladder" ) A complaint must be about failure to follow the ACTs. Send a copy to "THE Secretary of CS"
Also look at my entries below for important(hidden) web sites.
In the The "operation...." site refer back to the "separated parents" heading in the black column on the left.
Note that you have an opt in period and that you should have got a letter from them requesting back pay. read the fine print
Maybe australia should be pushing for this.
it is a definate to watch.
My Mother lent me her life savings $30,000 just to keep afloat and be able to see my kids (under supervision at $95 per hour, never any violence by the way, all made up shit from her with a VRO)and the wonderful Child Separation and Alienation people CSA said its wages and put the child support up to $1,200 per month.
F'n great when your not working and on new start.
Now they are taking $48 per fortnight to pay the arrears but still leaving it at $1,200 per month and they new about the loan all the way through.
Human fuck'n services hey???
There is no hope
We are all fucked
Even if somebody did manage to get up and attempt to change things would be kicked out sacked ridiculed or accused of some bullshit to justify kicking them out to "MAINTAIN FULL AND ULTIMATE CONTROL"
Our governement is in place to keep us in our place that is their job
so what do you think they are going to do if one of us gets up and upsets their little luxury nest????
pretty easy fkn awnser
FUCK THE SYSTEM
AND FUCK ANYONE WHO AGREES WIH THEM
In 2022 I'll say fk off to csa ,after 17.5 years of paying top dollar,for a child taken to another state,without my consent.
My son will say fk off to me after 17.5 years of being lied to poisoned and isolated from me.
I think that petitions or other group actions wont do too much. Do you think these scum lawers and legal maggots/politicians ,who make billions on this bullshit show called family law, will just walk away from their money bag and their lifestyle it gives them?. The legal system is buddy buddy with those scum politicians .
Maybe try contacting crocodile dundee or Russell Crowe or even dick smith to shed some light on this fking disaster.
2022 this sentence is over for me and im counting every day.
Revolution dreaming, Trump 2 for OZ.
The group invites all supporters choosing to support our course. Uncles aunts, Grandparents, Sisters, brothers, children, friends, observers, work colleagues, authorities, anyone who gives a fuck. Come on dude let's try some positively and less paranoia. Feel the love man. Let's amoungst it. WE ARE COLLECTIVE.
1.Keep a dairy of each contact Date receipt no person
2.Insist on copy of Cuba notes posted to you, These are the notes they put on their computer. Mostly will be lies,
Insist on copy of recording they make with each call
3. check your recollection or recording received against Cuba notes
4.Insist on a case Manager from day one. This pushes you up the ladder to a higher level and prevents you getting calls from all over Australia by people that know nothing of your case.
5. If you had been "private collect" then changed to "agency collect" you have on "opt in time to respond" of at least 28 days. All CS staff will deny this and lock in the generally requested three month back pay
5 Do not give them your email, Insist on post.
6. Do not give them an estimate until you understand all its implications
7.http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/public/Pages/SiteMap/separated-parents.html use this to find their rules
8. Also use this http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/4/1
9. don't be afraid to send a "formal complaint" if they have not followed the rules
10 If you have no money to pay they will record this as a "refusal to pay" and will not tell you you can apply not to pay anything under financial hardship
"Change of assessment in special circumstances (CS) 277-03120000" and/ or "Minimum annual rate to nil - Reducing child support assessments 277-03100000"
11. If coming of "private collect" this means your ex has applied under an "AFC" "Application for Child Support to be collected 277-04030000" despite what the document says The "acceptance date" is when the request was placed it cant be locked in for at least 28 days after. If hassled get a letter from them refusing to change and take them to the "AAT"
12. Put in your letter to AAT that this is strictly a procedural thing and that Child Support should be on the phone when determining the outcome other wise it will be your ex on the phone
Pas - don't think she can back date anything 3 years. 3 months is the most from memory, but if you had an agreement, and you met that agreement, then I find it difficult to think she could get anything turned over - contract is contract.
jimmy - have just been through those processes, so if you want to chat about it, give me your contact info and I will give you a call.
I was paying the wrong amount by far', and he helped me get a new assesment that saved me a shitload... it cost me about 1200 for 1 years representation but those people dont call me anymore they have to call him and he deals with them he calls me from time to time to touch base is all.
Now we are persueing the 900 days i was out of the country and not a resident for tax purposes where on return CSA charged me for the whole time i was away based on the assesment in place at the time i was still in the country..... it was a shit load and the only way you CANNOT" be held responsible for paying child support is in their legislation and it is if your dead or a non resident for tax purposes which i was... And they did not give a fuck about the legislation it was the perception of a csa representative and she made that decision so we are fighting that to get compensation from them ... then i am going to sue them for whatever i can.
So in terms of help and good advice for you.... give Laurie a ring and tell him Lenny from darwin on F4J Website put you on to him have a talk and he will either be able to help or not but he morethanlikely will be able to help you.
I tell you that it has been soooooo good not having to deal with csa on the phone or at all just let laurie and his team do it and you can at least keep your sanity
Just thought id share that bit of good news
stay strong keep your shit together i know its hard but theres more than one way to skin a cat
my ex partner and i have had a private arrangement for 3 years which we both agreed on and also notified centerlink
one of the children are now living with me there for i want to change the amount of child support i am paying.
my ex partner is now saying i need to back pay her the correct amount for the 3 years. is that correct? i haven't spoken to child support yet but if we had an agreed private arrangement and now that one of the children are living with me firstly m i with in my rights to review that amount i am paying and secondly can she actually make a claim with child support for me to back pay 3 years ?
This is not so much to avoid paying child support as I want to and do support my kids massively financially and as a parent.
It is more for my lifestyle. I work in a hugely stressful job with quite high pay but after tax and child support very bad pay.
I could handle the job if I saw the reward for it. I have always wanted the satisfaction of doing my own thing, I have had a go at it quite some years ago and failed, but that was a valuable lesson.
I am looking at starting in 6 years or so otherwise.
Would like to hear from others that have done this.
Well where do I start. I have just that the CSA do an assessment on me again after my last assessment ran its course, before it was set at $3200 per month. Although I was not working....... Yes, they believed I was some millionaire. So with it being set so high I left Australia and moved abroad so I could at least live as $3200 per month I never earned, never mind support my other child and new partner.
Anyway my last tax return was put in with a figure of 22K in place and agreed and accepted by the ATO but yet again the CSA have changed my taxable income to 81K this is due to a form 8 my ex partner put in. I have responded, as you have too, stating not working etc. I am stuck abroad and I cannot see my kids as I know when I come back I will have a DPO put on me.
When I called the CSA they came up with the 81K due to my answers I gave in a AAT hearing in March which was to try and reduce the $3500 per month, as we men know a total waste of time, not the response to the form 8 I filled in last month. Absolute S.... but hey that is the CSA. At that time I stated I was getting loans from friends and family to survive which they put down as income. Absolute S... again.
I was hoping they would use my taxable income of 22K so I could try catch up on my debt. Does this seem right? What is the best response as I have 28 days to answer. Please advice need to try and see my kids.
Have an account in your wife's name only. They are legally not allowed to touch it. Or put any extra money into your mortgage.
Get used to it because these arseholes told my husband that his first 2 children come first. Our 2 that we have togeather have missed out on heaps as we have struggled for the past 15 years. It not only takes a toll on you blokes but it surely takes a toll on the 2 nd family. We have been to hell and back with his ex bitch and we even had a restraining order on her. Start writing to Pauline Hanson and Derry hitch. This crap has to stop
It leaves me constantly dealing / coping with a whole range of
issues mentally emotionally phisically im an introvert now when before i was a happy easy going guy who could make a friend anywhere to now... not talking to anyone has nothing nice to say full of negetivity cant hold a job short tempered and frustrated to the max and just generally fucking pissed right the fuck off"!
So how do i fix it? play their game and be broke and pay what i dont owe because thats what its all about money money money no fucking mention of the most important issue here is there?" the well being of the poor kids who are now of the belief i dont wanna see them and their hearts are torn as i struggle in the background barely surviving they are getting the wrong messages and theres fuck all i can do"! its fucking killing me man"1 im broken into so many pieces i dont know if even when they are old enough to see me weather or not i will be able to function mentally enough to cope with explaining the whole saga to them so they will understand is it worth it?
FUCK THIS SYSTEM YOU FUCKWITS WHO VOTED THESE WOMEN INTO PARLAMENT LOOK AT WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO US"!
And also where is the senator for mens affairs? SURPRISE" there isnt one"! but that would be discriminatory to have one wouldnt it ...!!!!! Fuck me the fucking white trash bitches have one ..."SENATOR MICHAELA FUCKING "CASH"!!! CASH"! CASH"! How fucking ironic and i have to swallow this shit these cunts come up with OMFKING GOD PLEASE"!!!
Im so over this cunt of a system what can we do? its too big a problem for one person to deal with... we need a senator for mens affairs and we need it "YESTERDAY AS A MATTER OF URGENCY"!! IF EVERYONE WROTE OR PERSONALLY WENT IN TO THEIR MALE LOCAL MEMBER AND DEMANDED IT MAYBE JUST MAYBE THEY WILL START LISTENING I DONT KNOW"! BUT WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING.
OR ELASE WE ARE ALL FUCKED"!
A couple of years back my husband continued paying his ex wife for 100% care of his twins. 17 at the time but both earning over $320 per week. Child support informed us nothing could be done, but later called to have him stop paying for them 1 month before they turned 18. In all that time they were earning ALOT of money and he continued to pay but she was never required to pay it back? Do we stand a chance in claiming this back through small claims court? It's a total of $7000.
I've also just seen that in the 3 years after separating you can save 30% on child support payments. Child support really does a great job of hiding this don't they! I've just worked out where my husband was paying $500 a week he could have been paying $200!!!! A $300 a week saving!!! Child support has NEVER given him these details. This is a total of $35k that he has overpaid this money hungry cow. Surely that's a form of theft and negligence on behalf of child support? This woman is living a life of luxury and we are struggling!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
how do you suppose you will support yourself for that time?
what will be your income?
who will you be working for?
To which i replied : i will live of our [my filipino wives and my savings]
Secondly i replied : i will not have an income, which was 100% truth.
Thirdly: i am not working for anyone except volenteering to help those people in my wives family whose homes blew away and local people in and around their village.
The CSA Man hater exclaimed " well we will get your wife to pay and garnashi her account then"!!!
This is the time when i lost my shit"! after various exchanges of obcenities between myself and this piece of white trash rubbish i was verbally arguing with, to which i was surprised she went on for so long at it against me, i told her i was totally dissatisfied with her reasoning and her threats were against the law and i wanted to be put through to complaints immediately..."!
I was put through to complaints and straight away i told the other white piece of manhating trash to listen to the recorded phonecall before i spoke another word..... i waited for 10 minutes and white trash No# 2 apoligised for keeping me waiting and said Sir i apoligise to you profusely this reprasentative had no right to say the things she said please accept our apologies..."!!!?
I told her no wonder men commit suicide and shoot their exe's or the bloke who back doored him that is now living in his house playing daddy to his kids is'nt it HUH"!!!
Because of people and governement departments that have absolutely no fucking idea of what they are doing to for the mostly honest men who are bieng discriminated, ostricised & persicuted only for the lack of fair and just policies that you are trying to enforce"! you should be ashamed of yourself playing god in your position i told her and if you were really sorry you and your entire group of work collegues should quit your jobs immediately and walk out in support of us men "!!!
This hard line statment made by myself was met by a minute of silence by the complaints officer... and i said i rest my case and hung up and next week jumped on a plane and went to the philippines and did as i said i was going to do... i was out of the contry for 900 days in total or close enough to it, when i arrived in australia immmegration called my wife and myself over to another counter where they took their time but essentialy notified csa i was back in the country, i was broke skinny tired and worn out, i got a job earning great money when i put my tax return in they pounced on me saying i owed for the last 900 days the amount i was paying per month before i left"... these fucking cunts.... i am at war , i havent seen my kids as the mother thinks "i owe it" "REALLY" SERIOUSLY"! This whole place is fucked i cant describe how i feel but i know it isnt good, non productive to say the least... what of my new wife does she continuously have to watch me go through this bullshit and get fed up and find a happier life ... you pack of "DOGS"! Hide behing your iorn curtain while you can " justice and fairness and the big one CARMA Will prevail.. i spit on you you peices of shit
I suggest we start a petition on change.com then spread the word.
Maybe the petition could be to Malcolm Turnbull to enact an urgent review of the powers of the Child Support Agency.
Secondly - to review the structure around payments to take into account family income not just individual income (especially relevant where a mother marries into money and still milks child suport.
Thirdly - for all receiving parents to provide a budget for how the child support will be spent
Fourth - to review the linkages between child suport payments and access to children.
Happy to be of service but I think this should be done by the forum leaders.
I am really curious to see if anybody can advise me about this travel ban bullshit that they can do.
In my last call with my "case officer", she advised me that a travel ban "can be put into place if I fail to pay". Now, I've got a "debt" of ~$4,000, but much of this is "remittance and penalties" WTF? I've been paying at $500 per month since she told me this.
Conversely, I (stupidly) signed a stat dec saying that my ex can take the girls overseas any time she likes.
I'm leaving for five days on Wednesday, I've already done an electronic check in with my passport number etc. Does anybody here think I will be stopped at the airport and not allowed to leave?
Forgive my language, but if I don't get this fucking break, I will lose my fucking mind. I work in a high stress job. I was able to leave last year for five days.
If these CSA pricks block me from my travel (all paid for) I swear I will quit my job and live off of the welfare state!
Does anybody have any experiences in this area?
Sorry to hear about what they have done to you.
If you have a debt they can garnishee your wages, bank accounts....any asset in your name under what is call a 72a application.....no court order just take. Government sanctioned theft.
The person or Company that the application is served on has great financial penalties if they don't comply.
That is why .....if you have any debt....don't have assets or accounts in your name, joint account, partnership or sole trader....with your name on it. Only some trusted significant other, son mother father etc. If you are able.... a Company or Trust you are not the beneficiary of...or... cash under the bed. Yes you can file court actions to get it back....but that means money to solicitors and no guarantees that you WILL get it back. Money you don't have with no guarantees of winning.
Its a shit system